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matera
15.06.2007, 12:38 AM
This subject was touched on in the old forum. I've been thinking about it again, after reorganizing all my filters. One of the reasons I spent a couple of tedious hours sorting out the filters was to avoid loading the wrong ones. I still managed to have one crash.

Recap of problem: While the Filter Factory dialog will not load Adobe 8bf filters, the Adobe dialog may load Filter Factory 8bfs. FF filters applied from the Adobe dialog crash I-V.

So the first need is for greater discrimination, in order to avoid loading the wrong filters. It is hard to keep track of which is what in a large collection, and enthusiastic newbies might not be sure of what they have after a download spree. ;)

I do like having the two separate dialogs, since in my case one would be too full!

In the interest of organizing - might it be possible to have the lists rearrangeable? Moving things up or down would be a big help. It is possible to add the filters in some kind of order, but then if more are added, they take over one end of the list.

The Filter Factory preview thumb - could it be made a teensy bit larger? Pretty please?

One other small detail - I would be SO thrilled if I could adjust the font size in the list. It is very hard for my old eyes to read without cluttering the screen with a magnifier or using a window-hacker for a temporary fix. If it is not feasable, I suppose I could get off my butt and try to write an Autoit script to do it - LOL

Sam_Zen
15.06.2007, 02:03 AM
I'm very pleased you bring this up again.
From the beginning it was a struggle with the 8bf-plugins, because i couldn't see the general idea behind the organisation of them, so i had to construct myself.
Sometimes Adobe, sometimes FF, it was guessing most of the times. Plus the fact that other sets of filters made their own subdirs beside those two, for example the UnPlugged package.

Not 100 % valid, but there is a distinctive difference between Adobe and FF filters : the filesize.
FF filters basically have a default 57.344 bytes, while Adobe ones usually are much bigger.

jazzman
20.08.2007, 02:05 PM
I too would like to see some improvements in the Filters Dialog. I create and use Adobe filters only, so I can't comment on the FF dialog.

1) The Tab-Sequence in the filters dialog is kind of strange.

2) When I highlight a filter (by way of the keyboard) and hit enter, the dialog closes instead of starting the filter. Many a time I have fallen into that trap.

3) Organising the filters (alphabetically, in subfolders or some other logic) would be a real bonus. As it is I don't see a system in the sequence, except that new filters are added at the top of the list.

Big thanks for little big IV
Jazzman

Sam_Zen
21.08.2007, 12:19 AM
Rearranging the list with up and down would be a nice feature.
I agree about the small font size in the list. It would also help if the dialog windows could be stretched, hor. and vert.


When I highlight a filter (by way of the keyboard) and hit enter, the dialog closes instead of starting the filter.
Confirmed. I would call this buggy behaviour, because default the enter key should do the same as a double-click.

As far as organisation of the filters is concerned, I think a user can do quite some useful pre-work himself.
Of course there are the preset directories "Adobe 8BF" and "FFactory". But there's no need, to stuff them up with all the relevant filters, thus getting very long lists. In both 'Add filter' options one can go to any subdir to load something.
So I make a different plugins subdir for any substantial group of filters. If it's just one or two loose ones, I place them
in the default dirs. Some filters, like Unplugged, already install their own subdirs, for the different categories.

As for the two dialogs, I not only agree of having them both, but I would suggest that the Adobe dialog would have
the same context as the FF one. Because it's just the one with the better survey.
Not only with the preview, but also with the division between 'Filter Groups' and 'Filter'.

A remark about the 'Add Filter' option :
It's quite time-consuming to start every time at the root-level of 'my computer' to get the right files. (running W2k).
At least it should start as a default in the IrfanView region, preferring directly at the /plugins dir.
The exception on this is the Adobe dialog, but only if there is already something in the list.
If the list is empty, it will start at the C: root too.

jazzman
21.08.2007, 06:55 AM
So I make a different plugins subdir for any substantial group of filters...

Yes, so do I. But once loaded into IV by "Add Filters" they result in one big list.

Also, if I add a filter to an existing folder and do the "Add Filters" the previously existing filters are all added again, so I have to remove the duplicates manually. A remove function by folder would be helpful.

Sjef
21.08.2007, 07:51 AM
Working with 8bf filters in IV require some preparation. I put my filters in different folders. Like in Photoshop, they are separated in groups. So my 8bf-folders are divided in Plugins\Artistic; Plugins\Sketch; Plugins\Structure and so on. If you cleanup your dialog first (with the button ‘Remove all filters’ before importing a series of other filters, you can't get any stacks.

Sjef
21.08.2007, 10:20 AM
To matera: When I load the standard Photoshop 8bf-filters in Filter Factory-dialog I get a crash too. Indeed allmost all Filter Factory plugins are to be loaded into the Adobe 8bf dialog. You'd like two separate filter dialogs, but what about the build-in effectfilters? (Ctrl+E) I'd say: ‘Three's a croud’ in this case. I keep the 8bf dialog clean with the ‘Remove all filters’-button and I work with separate subfolders of filter groups. If you have trouble choosing the right filter, you could apply all filters to a small image and save them into your filter folder. In IV-thumb modus you can convert them to one example picture.
I'd vote for one effect dialog (Ctrl+E) with a build-in 8bf import option (from the Adobe 8bf routine?). And, for that matter, the preview thumb is already bigger here, and that was what you wanted too. :)

Sam_Zen
22.08.2007, 02:52 AM
Very nice to introduce Ctrl+E here, I forgot about that, and it definitely belongs in this issue too.
Too many roads indeed. Including the situation in the pulldown of 'Image/Effects' menu.

You've not yet convinced me enough about the single effect dialog, but I would vote at least for removing all things related to Filter Factory in connection with the 'K' dialog.
I've got quite a collection with subdirs in the FF-directory, and none of them couldn't be opened with the 'Ctrl-K' dialog.

Before re-arranging some navigation, it's better to remove elements, that don't have any extra for the system, first.
Which doesn't mean to skip the 'K' dialog. It can be used for another kind of category within the 8bf-range.
And the dialog can have it's own ini-file, as is done now, to store the latest situation, so quite efficient when choosing.
The more, FFactory has some strange construction. Two ini-files called FFactory1.ini and FFactory2.ini.
With apparently nr 2 only adding some things to the list of nr 1..

Talking about removal :
1) I wouldn't mind skipping the string 'Adobe' in this matter.
I think '8bf files' is quite sufficient to indicate the format with its specific properties. Nobody adds 'Fraunhofer' to 'mp3'.
Ok, as an explanation for new ones one could mention 'photoshop plugins' or something like that..
2) Only available via the 'Image/Effects' menu, another one : 'Filters UnLimited'.
I didn't like needing a 3rd-party program to install, so I haven't any file in this category.
The link isn't gray, and I can't remove it from the menu, even after I moved "funltdiv.dll" to another place

The Ctrl+E dialog is one of the jumps in the 'Image/Effects' menu, or 'Alt+I - F'.
In this context a list of effects is shown. 10 effects, from 3D Button to Rain Drops.
But if the effect browser (Ctrl+E) is activated, the dialog shows a much bigger list, including those ten again.

Sjef
25.08.2007, 06:04 PM
You reminded me of another filter-utility of IV: Filters Unlimited. I completely forgot about this very large filter manufacturer. Very difficult to get free filters from them. I haven't got any. All together the more reason to take a good look at this way of handling filters. The main goal of IV should be viewing and converting as much graphical formats as possible. The possibility of applying filters shouldn't be that important to have so many filter dialogs. Still in mind: IrfanPaint. Maybe this plugin could handle all (or some) filter dialog routines in future (when IP perhaps gets integrated in IV?). IV gets too heavy this way? Maybe IV-users are to strict about the demand of fastness, while CPU's and videocards gets faster and faster.

Sam_Zen
26.08.2007, 12:38 AM
The possibility of applying filters shouldn't be that important to have so many filter dialogs.
Of course the importance of such possibility will differ personally, but I agree, let's keep it simple.
So let's clean up the place, before improving what's left. I guess one filter dialog should be sufficient.
An 8Bf is an 8Bf, no matter the source.

As far as IP is concerned : I'm still strongly against integration in IV. It's just a plugin, like the others.
BTW I'm not really sure what you mean with integration. Embedded in IV.exe, or part of the standard plugins-packages ?
If the first is the case, it would mean that on this forum items concerning IP will be all over the place, questions, bug-reports, feat. requests...


while CPU's and videocards gets faster and faster
Remarkable. In all those years I never noticed my machine getting faster and faster :)

Sjef
26.08.2007, 06:19 AM
I agree with you about embedding: No embedding! I ment like slideshow.exe in the IV\Plugin directory. Only able to appeal from within IV. So it stays a kind of plugin, but with a fine approach to a Ctrl+F-like dialog to apply the (8bf) filters. Possible shortcut for IP (with approach to all filters): K. And I don't mind the place of the items on this forum. We have got a nice search option.
Ha ha :), nice remark about the ‘getting faster’ issue. But I think you know what I ment there. :cool: