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    When is a Plugin an External Program?

    If you are no longer talking about an IrfanView plugin then please create a new thread in Off-topic/Software.

    #2
    It seems to me that luciansabo is developing both a plugin for IrfanView and a standalone program. The DLL would presumably be just like Paint.dll and accessible from within the IV interface. If so, then this is an appropriate place to discuss what features will be most useful.

    The standalone program should have more features. The plugin does not need to duplicate features already in IrfanView such as cropping, or opening many formats. I presume that if the plugin can save in JPG, PNG, or GiF then that will be enough at least to start with.

    If the plugin can save PNG with Alpha transparency, which IrfanView currently cannot, I think that this would be a high priority.
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      #3
      I agree with Bhikkhu about keeping it in this forum-category.
      I also agree that if it's used as an IV plugin, while 'Image optimizing' is the issue, then options like cropping or opening formats are quite irrelevant.
      I don't fully agree about the available formats to make a save.
      An uncompressed mode like BMP should be possible too, because maybe the 'optimization' process is part of a longer route.
      0.6180339887
      Rest In Peace, Sam!

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        #4
        I don't like the idea that there may be a plugin in Irfanview which is doing too many things.
        Up to now Irfanview always tried to keep it small and compatible with older OS versions.
        If the plugin offers the possibilty to save in different formats it is no longer a real plugin. It should be called as an external editor. In this case it is a different program and should be discussed somewhere else. Or everybody will start to discuss in the plugin forum.

        If alpha transparency for png is important, why not just make a plugin for this.
        Same for other functionalities. Then people can select what they need.

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          #5
          Why the objection to discussing this? We should be encouraging developers to add useful plugins for IrfanView — though not the kitchen sink — which is why it needs to be discussed.

          MItaly's IrfanPaint plugin provides a lot of functionality not provided by IrfanView. Whether you want a clone brush or not, it is obviously useful to some users. All I ever asked for was a resizable eraser or paint brush to clean up scans. The rest I will use so rarely that I would be happy to use PhotoPlus or FastStone Capture to do that.

          Some users obviously want to have an easier way to optimise graphics for the web. IrfanView can do this already, but not in a way that is user-friendly. That is, you have to save it first and then check the file size, and you have to open the saved file and zoom in to see how bad the artefacts are.

          An Export Optimiser plugin will do this — it will show a zoomed preview of the file after compression/resizing, and give feedback of the projected file size before you save it.

          If it can also save PNG with alpha transparency, which IV currently cannot do, surely these are just the kind of improvements that many IV users want?
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            #6
            It does not sound that there will be a plugin well integrated in Irfanview and just doing what's necessary. It sounds like an individual program. If so call it like an editor and discuss it in the software group else.

            IrfanPaint is integrated, and just does its job. This is completely different.

            And about png. And as I said already why not just offering a plugin to save png with transparency. Then you have the freedom to decide what to use.

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              #7
              Originally posted by midora View Post
              It does not sound that there will be a plugin well integrated in Irfanview and just doing what's necessary. It sounds like an individual program.
              Give the developer a chance! We only heard about RIOT a few days ago. I haven't seen the plugin yet, so I cannot comment whether it will be well-integrated or not, and neither can you. The standalone program is ready for preview from the developer's link. I get a page not available error when trying to access the DLL. Only time will tell if the developer really wants to develop a plugin or is more interested in producing a standalone program.
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                #8
                Originally posted by Bhikkhu Pesala View Post
                Give the developer a chance! We only heard about RIOT a few days ago. I haven't seen the plugin yet, so I cannot comment whether it will be well-integrated or not, and neither can you.
                Common, if you are not doing the standard way of saving files for different formats then it is somehow beside of IrfanView and it would be better to run it independent. He already stated that people may not want to return to Irfanview after saving an image.

                Back to start: The author suddenly started to discuss about the program and not the plugin. As long as we are talking about the plugin version everything is fine. If not create an other thread somewhere else. What's the problem? This is nothing against the programmer, this is about the users of the forum.

                >>The standalone program is ready for preview from the developer's link.

                Fine then I would expect you can call it as an external editor or not?

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                  #9
                  Originally posted by midora View Post
                  Fine then I would expect you can call it as an external editor or not?
                  Yes, but I wouldn't be interested in RIOT as I can call PhotoPlus if I wish to call an external program. That already has an Export Optimiser.

                  We were discussing about a pllugin for IrfanView, so that we don't have to call an external program to get what is a pretty basic feature when saving images.

                  Off-topic posts moved to a new thread
                  Last edited by Bhikkhu Pesala; 26.04.2008, 11:35 AM.
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                    #10
                    >>It does not sound that there will be a plugin well integrated in Irfanview and just doing >>what's necessary.
                    MOTTO: What's necessary for you is not necessarilly necessary for everyone and vice-versa.

                    I am not talking about the standalone application. I want to develop a Save for Web dialog for IV. What's so hard to understand? I plan to create a standalone app also that looks the same and has some enhanced features.
                    So... if you don't need RIOT save for web dialog, don't use it, or call another external editor for that. You are free to use it or not.

                    I don't understand why you are bothered by a feature that you will not use and someone else may find useful ? It will be just an option in the File menu...please ignore it.
                    About integration - how do you integrate a dialog in a program? By calling it and let it do his job - optimize and save pictures. Right? I don't understand what's the problem with the integration.
                    Last edited by luciansabo; 26.04.2008, 12:18 PM.
                    RIOT developer
                    visit the Radical Image Optimization Tool website

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                      #11
                      Originally posted by luciansabo View Post
                      >>It does not sound that there will be a plugin well integrated in Irfanview and just doing >>what's necessary.
                      MOTTO: What's necessary for you is not necessarilly necessary for everyone and vice-versa.
                      Necessary in the meaning of minimal. Normally multiple decicated plugins are better than one big one. You are developing software, so you know this. I would never say that I know what other people need.

                      Maybe I misunderstood when you started to ask for the vote. But if you read my comment again then you will see that I said that if you are now talking about the standalone application then please do it at a different place. That's all I said.

                      I appreciate that you are developing a plugin but please try to limit it.

                      At the end I guess there is a consensus to discuss plugin issues in IrfanView plugins and standalone application issues in Software. This is just what I asked for at the beginning.

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                        #12
                        OK. It was not my intention to talk about the standalone app, nor opening a topic in the plugins section. I posted an answer to a feature request, then a moderator created a post for me in another section. I just said that a standalone version exists.
                        If you read my messages you will see that I posted here because I want to make RIOT Lite a FREE IV plugin. That was my original intention.
                        FREE means also free to use, and if anybody does not like/need it or find it too complex he may choose not to use it. I don't plan to create a simple tool , but a useful tool for someone that needs image optimization with preview and uses IV frequently.

                        So for your question about adding as a external editor, I will copy here my answer from the original topic:
                        The difference in using "Open with external editor" is that the external editor receives the filename as parameter and this plugin will receive the image from memory that Irfan internally uses. The external editor opens in fact the original file without knowing any modifications done already by IV to the image (ex: resample, effects, modify colors, write with Irfan Paint, etc)

                        Oppinions can be different about things. For example for me the paint plugin you praise so much is far too simple. I can't do anything with that. I can draw objects (rectangles, etc), but I cannot move or resize them, the fill algorithm is far too simple, the clone tool is unusable for a professional. So, *FOR ME* this is a mess, but for someone else it may be the best thing since the invention of the cracknel hole. But it's easy I don't use it. This does not mean It will not get better and start to use it.
                        RIOT developer
                        visit the Radical Image Optimization Tool website

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                          #13
                          Does Irfan know that you like to offer a commercial version of the plugin with enhanced features? I remember the problems with the jpeg2000 plugin.

                          I'm not using IrfanPaint but I would say the author did a quite good job (respecting what is possible by the plugin interface).

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                            #14
                            I don't see much problems here.
                            As long as a plugin for IV doesn't disturb the basic functioning of the app, it's fine by me.
                            If it has some extended save mode aboard, ok. FilterMeister has it too.
                            As a plugin, I don't see much difference between this one and the Paint one made by MItaly.
                            Both routines with a dedicated function : One has a goal to paint, the other to optimize.
                            Regarding a stand-alone version, fine, I will consider it as an independent tool, possibly
                            configurated as add-on to IV.
                            0.6180339887
                            Rest In Peace, Sam!

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                              #15
                              Does Irfan know that you like to offer a commercial version of the plugin with enhanced features?
                              Why do you put words in my mouth? I never said that the full version will be a commercial application. RIOT is freeware and it will remain so.
                              RIOT developer
                              visit the Radical Image Optimization Tool website

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