Save & Save As anomalies

[Cynthia Moore]

I clearly don't understand how Save and Save As work. They don't seem to work like any other program I have ever used. Here are a few anomalies I have run into:

I opened an image file, cropped it, typed “s” and then Enter to save it, and closed IV. Then I noticed that neither the file size nor the date had changed. So I reopened it and discovered that the changes I had made had not been saved. I was a little annoyed because I was sure I had saved the changes. But I reopened the file and did them again. Again I typed “s” and was about to hit Enter when I noticed that the “Save in…” folder was not the one where I had opened that file, but one that I had been working in several days ago. What in blazes is going on?

I navigated to the right folder, saved it, and closed IV. I then went to other folder and sure enough, there was the file with the changes I had made the first time. Then I noticed that the file size had changed, but time stamp had not. In fact, it still had the date that it had when it was in the other folder. Now I am starting to I am losing my mind.

Then I noticed that the File menu has the text “(original folder)” next to the Save command, which is assigned to Ctrl+S. Just plain “S”, is assigned to “Save As”, which does not have that text, so who knows where it goes. In my case it went to a folder that I hadn’t worked in for awhile.

So I did a little testing. I discovered that if I open and save a file in Folder A and then open and save a file in Folder B, the Save command (“S”) defaults to Folder A. But if I reverse the procedure and first open and save a file in B and then go to A, it does not default to B. So I have no idea what it happening.

Question #1: Is there any way that I can get Save and Save As to work like every other program? That is Save (Ctrl+S) will save the file back where it came from overwriting the old one and Save As (no shortcut) will offer me a dialog to allow me to save it anywhere I want and change the name. And I want this to work the same for all folders.

I am also concerned about the time stamp. IV never updates it.

Question #2: Is there some setting that I have wrong? Can I get IV to always update the timestamp when it saves a file?

I also noticed that if I cancel the Save dialog, IV also cancels the “changes not saved” flag, so that if I then hit Esc, it will discard changes and exit.

Question #3: Is there a way that I can get IV to never discard changes without a warning and a clear affirmation from me?

Thanks

[Bhikkhu Pesala]

1. IrfanView is an image viewer, not an image editor, so the assumption it makes is that users don't wish to overwrite their original images, but are more likely to want to save them as a new, smaller image, possibly in a different format, or more compressed. So save as is the default. Save as, otherwise known as Save ass, protects users from losing their work. It will use the last used folder and file format by default. There is no way to change this behaviour.

2. If I use Save (original folder) and overwrite the original file, the date/time stamp is updated. Likewise, if I use Save, and save to a different file format. You might be seeing the time/date stamp according to Exif data, which would be the time created?

3. In Settings, Start/Exit you can check the box to Ask to save changes on program exit or file change. If you previously cancelled the save dialogue this warning is not shown, which might be a bug. I think you won't encounter this problem once you know how IrfanView works.

Spend some time getting to know how the program works. Assuming that it works like PhotoShop etc., is sure to lead to frustration. It is an old and very popular program, but it is not a PhotoShop replacement, although one can do quite a lot of editing with the help of plugins like IrfanPaint, and the effects plugins.

[jazzman]

First please check your properties settings for these options (see screenshots 1 + 2 below), it will help you understand what's going on. You can uncheck these later if you like, but I recommend to keep them for a while until you get used to Irfanview's behaviour.





#1: CTRL+S saves to the original folder as is the case with all applications I know. You can change the name/folder though when the save dialogue pops up.

'S' gives you the option to save to another path, again you can change the name/folder though when the save dialogue pops up

#2 timestamp, see this screenshot of the save dialogue:



#3 see the first screenshot above

[Cynthia Moore]

1. IrfanView is an image viewer, not an image editor,

Really? If it is not an editor, why does it have so many editing features: crop, cut, rotate, resize, pixelize (sic), red/green/yellow eye reduction, sepia, and on and on and on... If it's not an editor, it is sure doing a fabulous impersonation of one.

so the assumption it makes is that users don't wish to overwrite their original images, but are more likely to want to save them as a new, smaller image, possibly in a different format, or more compressed.

If IV is just a viewer, why are users wanting to save their unedited images at all? There would be no changes, so nothing to save!

So save as is the default. Save as, otherwise known as Save ass, protects users from losing their work.

Protecting users from themselves is, in my experience, usually a losing proposition. And I think it is often ill advised, especially if it complicates a product or makes it non-standard. I have saved my share of documents in error in various applications (Word, Excel, etc.). In the olden days, I was out of luck, so I learned the hard way to be careful or make a copy. The school of hard knocks is the very best teacher. Today, I have online backup software, which continuously backs up all of my data files. If I accidentally overwrite something, I merely right-click on it and ask for the most recent backup.

It will use the last used folder and file format by default.

Even if it was from a week ago or a month ago or a year ago? That logic escapes me.

There is no way to change this behaviour.

You mean there is no way for me to change that behavior. The developers could do so easily.

2. If I use Save (original folder) and overwrite the original file, the date/time stamp is updated. Likewise, if I use Save, and save to a different file format. You might be seeing the time/date stamp according to Exif data, which would be the time created?

This appears to be a problem with Windows Explorer. For some reason it is showing the creation date in the Date Modified column and the modification date in the Date Created column.

3. In Settings, Start/Exit you can check the box to Ask to save changes on program exit or file change. If you previously cancelled the save dialogue this warning is not shown, which might be a bug.

This is definitely a bug in my opinion. The software should never discard changes without an explicit OK from the user.

I think you won't encounter this problem once you know how IrfanView works.

We'll see.

Spend some time getting to know how the program works.

I've actually used IV for quite some time, albeit intermittently. The Save problem has always bugged me, but I never had to use it enough to bother trying to figure it out. Recently, I've needed to do a bit more graphics work, so I've been using it a lot more. I decided to see if there was any way to make it behave in a more standard way. I hate to have to learn special cases.

Assuming that it works like PhotoShop etc., is sure to lead to frustration.

I don't use PhotoShop, so that doesn't apply to me. My complaint is that it doesn't work like most other Windows programs. But, like it or not, PhotoShop is the industry standard, so being as compatible as possible with their defaults would make a lot of sense for IV. It would also make a lot of sense for IV users who would be able to go back and forth more seamlessly. That ought to matter to the IV developers.

It is an old and very popular program, but it is not a PhotoShop replacement,

Tell that to the hundreds (if not thousands) of people on dozens of discussion forums who tout IV as a free alternative to PhotoShop. For simple tasks, I think it is superior to Photoshop. I used IV several years ago to apply a sepia tone to a cute photo of one of my grandkids for a Christmas gift. It took me about a minute in this not-an-editor program. I had previously spent well over an hour in GIMP before someone put me straight.

...although one can do quite a lot of editing with the help of plugins like IrfanPaint, and the effects plugins.

Wait! What? I thought you said that IV was not an editing program. Now I really am confused.

[Cynthia Moore]

First please check your properties settings for these options (see screenshots 1 + 2 below), it will help you understand what's going on. You can uncheck these later if you like, but I recommend to keep them for a while until you get used to Irfanview's behaviour.

Thanks for the tips and especially the screen shots. I'll take a closer look as soon as I get a few minutes...

[Bhikkhu Pesala]

Really? If it is not an editor, why does it have so many editing features: crop, cut, rotate, resize, pixelize (sic), red/green/yellow eye reduction, sepia, and on and on and on... If it's not an editor, it is sure doing a fabulous impersonation of one.

The clue is in the name: IrfanView ... one of the most popular viewers worldwide!

Yes. It has lot's of editing and conversion features, but it is an image viewer.

There is only one developer, and it's not practical to change the behaviour ... not because of any programming difficulty, but because millions of users are accustomed to the way that it works.