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    #16
    Keyboard Inputs Follow Mouse Focus in FastStone

    Originally posted by Sjef View Post
    Still don't see what you mean by keyboard focus. When the Faststone window is active, I can't switch between Tumbs- and Tree panel using the keyboard, because the Tab key won't work.
    What I am referring to in FastStone is: when you place the mouse in a particular area, that area is given focus, and inputs using the keyboard respond there, too. For instance, if the mouse is in the folder tree pane, pressing the down arrow key moves down a folder because it gets highlighted by the mouse's focus. If the mouse pointer were in the thumbnail pane, then a down key press would move down a thumbnail. Keyboard inputs follow mouse focus, even if you actually click on a pane and then use the keyboard arrow keys.

    I was not even referring to the Tab key. But, now that you mention it, the Tab key has an interesting behavior as well. As I stated above, the mouse has focus, so the Tab key responds differently depending on where the pointer is. I still don't understand how it works. Here's what I've figured out though. If it's in the folder pane, it doesn't do anything. If it's in the thumbnail pane, it cycles between maybe two elements. If its outside both of these panes, the Tab key cycles between several program elements. But it is confusing just how it cycles.

    If you can experience what I am talking about, do you like it and would you want that in IV?

    As for my problem with IV, I haven't had time to try your suggestion. I'll report back when I do.

    Comment


      #17
      After clicking on the Titel bar of Faststone Image Viewer (which will almost never be the case) the Tab key will work as expected, but that's not very workable. Having selected a thumbnail or a folder in the tree, Tab doesn't work.

      I wouldn't vote for the Tab key getting a different function in IrfanView!! For me it's essencial that the Tab keeps switching between View mode and Browser (thumbs) mode. And when it not desturbs anything, the keyboard focus may (or should) follow the mousepointer focus like you described.

      All this was a lot of talking about only ONE mouseclick on a panel in IV-Browser mode. It was only a suggestion to Irfan and I'm not getting sad if he doesn't change it to auto-focus.

      In the end I must confess I rarely use the Browser mode for myself because of the view options in my file manager. But when I demonstrate IrfanView to club members I do, using large thumbs and of course the Tab key.

      Comment


        #18
        No to Synchronization

        Yes, clicking the Title bar would be similar to leaving the pointer outside of the other panes. So that would cycle the program elements normally when using Tab. Selecting the Thumb Pane changes what elements get cycled. Folder Pane selection cycles nothing, as you said. I think it is common practice to cycle many items in programs with Tab, but FastStone's method is far too confusing.

        You're right that IV shouldn't change how Tab works. It already uses CTRL+Tab to cycle between the Thumb Pane, Address Bar, and Folder Pane. FastStone doesn't utilize CTRL+Tab it seems.

        As for keyboard focus following mouse focus, it sounds logical. However, I'm not sure I want it. If I click on a thumbnail, but just happen to leave the mouse pointer in the Folder Pane when I let go, then the focus will transfer to the Folder Pane. But I, thinking I am working in the Thumb Pane, will press an arrow key to move along the thumbnails, only to be surprised when the folder suddenly changes! This is just one scenario. Therefore, I wouldn't want the keyboard focus to correlate with mouse focus.

        I must confess as well, that I rarely use the Browser mode for myself because thumbnail generation has to be the slowest thing in IrfanView! I am mostly accessing images over USB on an external hard drive, so it is unbearable. Most other programs cache thumbs, but not IV. Although, I am satisfied with Windows Explorer Thumbnails. Blazing fast, and with TweakUI, I can change the size and quality of them.

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          #19
          Originally posted by Skippybox View Post
          It already uses CTRL+Tab to cycle between the Thumb Pane, Address Bar, and Folder Pane. FastStone doesn't utilize CTRL+Tab it seems.
          Thanks for this handy tip! I've never tried this out

          I hate any cache-file in my folders so much that I shut this option off in Folder options. So if I view images with the Explorer (by mistake) they don't get rendered. I love the way IrfanView makes his thumbs and I disagree about the slowness of it. My collection of graphics and digital photographs is very large and I consider my CD's and DVD's as my ‘cache’ memory. IV does nothing more then to be expected: quick and easy creating thumbnails (on a webpage too!)

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            #20
            Thumbnails

            Originally posted by Sjef View Post
            Thanks for this handy tip! I've never tried this out
            Glad you like it. So how would you have selected those items without a mouse before I told you? Isn't CTRL+Tab common?

            The cache-file is not that bad if it's hidden, but I agree it can be annoying. IV isn't as slow using an internal HDD, but other devices are slow. I don't like that if I move between folders, the thumbnails have to be completely regenerated again. With 500 files in a folder, this is ridiculous. Viewing is fast for some reason, but thumbnail creation is just slow. Isn't your file manager faster at thumbnails than IV? In WinExp the generation is near instant if the cache exists. What do you mean you consider your CD's and DVD's as your ‘cache’ memory? And what about a webpage?

            Comment


              #21
              Safe selected thumbs as HTML file... in the File menu of IrfanView Thumbnails.
              For the rest... never mind!

              Comment


                #22
                Now I got it! Beautiful tool. But that only works for static folders. What's a person to do if the content changes?

                Comment


                  #23
                  Lost Focus in Thumb Browser on Laptop

                  Originally posted by Sjef View Post
                  There must be something in your memory that confuses your mouse behavior in IrfanView. You could start with temporary shutting off your touchpad. To be found in START » Run » msconfig.exe » Start (restart your system after the uncheck).

                  On my laptop (HP) I don't have the troubles you described eighter, with or without the touchpad switched on and browsing with the arrow keys, Tab key and the Enter key (or using the mouse).

                  If shutting off your touchpad is solving your problem, IMO it's the touchpad driver that maybe isn't up to date or not for 100% compatible/state of the art.
                  I'm not sure if I did it right, but here's what I tried: I unchecked Apoint in msconfig.exe>Startup and rebooted. The touchpad was still operational. Was that correct?

                  I then tried IV, but the observations previously experienced repeated themselves, both with the touchpad and the mouse. The Thumb Pane seems to be the trouble, since if the pointer is outside it (like in the Folder Pane or Menu Bar), the window doesn't lose focus. I noticed the Thumbs window 'disappears' when you try to move it in fullscreen mode, too (both with the driver on/off). When you release it, it reappears.

                  So, it must not be the driver as you said. My notebook is a Sony VAIO with an Alps Pointing-device. I also noticed that this problem doesn't occur if the IV Thumb window is maximized.
                  Last edited by Skippybox; 06.09.2008, 12:18 AM.

                  Comment


                    #24
                    You didn't mention how you would use IrfanView Thumbs solely with the keyboard, if you did not know about CTRL+Tab. Just wondering.

                    Comment


                      #25
                      I didn't mention the keyboard, because my question was referring to mouse movements and automatic focus between IV-panels. Who said I only want to use my keyboard in IrfanView?

                      You unchecked Apoint in msconfig, but I suppose there was still another driver resident. Now I know you use a VAIO, I don't think it's the driver(s) of you touchpad that may course the trouble. But even if it does, if I were you I'd adapt myself to the capriciousness of this little hardware/software conduct. Maybe you could compare this behaviour on the laptop of your friends or neighbour.

                      The ability of making html files with IrfanView is to use them on the internet. See some of my photo's and dia's on my homepage for an example (click Foto's).

                      Comment


                        #26
                        Originally posted by Sjef View Post
                        I didn't mention the keyboard, because my question was referring to mouse movements and automatic focus between IV-panels. Who said I only want to use my keyboard in IrfanView?
                        Hello Sjef,

                        I only brought up the keyboard in this conversation because of its possible implications with mouse focus. I was concerned that changing the mouse's behavior might have an affect on the keyboard's, like it does in FastStone. I did not imply that you have to only use the keyboard. I was only asking because it is not a requirement to use a mouse in a program. I frequently use both and don't only use one or the other. I was just wondering based on your discovery that ALT-Tab exists, how would you have thought to switch panes without a mouse. Perhaps you never thought about it, as you just take your mouse for granted. I know I do this quite often.

                        You unchecked Apoint in msconfig, but I suppose there was still another driver resident. Now I know you use a VAIO, I don't think it's the driver(s) of you touchpad that may course the trouble. But even if it does, if I were you I'd adapt myself to the capriciousness of this little hardware/software conduct. Maybe you could compare this behaviour on the laptop of your friends or neighbour.
                        There probably are more drivers at play. Was the touchpad supposed to be completely disabled? Is that why you say that? Luckily during normal use, I'm not affected by the behavior in IrfanView, but it is strange. I don't know how one could adapt, other than avoid it. Are you saying that because you know it's a VAIO, it is state-of-the-art? I don't know too many with a laptop, and the one's that do, have VAIO's too! Or Macs! Thanks though, I really appreciate your help and persistence.

                        The ability of making html files with IrfanView is to use them on the internet. See some of my photo's and dia's on my homepage for an example (click Foto's).
                        Right, but I thought we were talking about file thumbnails. I was under the assumption that you make locally accessible thumbnail html files to avoid the problems I previously described, such as repeat loading and slow rendering. Is this what you do? My problem is that if my files keep changing in folders, this method is rather poor. I need to be able to see many thumbs quickly, that are dynamically changing, week to week, or worse. Also, it needs to do it despite a slow file transfer rate. IrfanView unfortunately just can't deliver in this situation. What could I do, other than use a cache?

                        Comment


                          #27
                          I prefer using my keyboard, as I do in TotalCommander for instance. And indeed, I took the mouse for granted in situations like Irfan's Browser mode. Now I have to get the habit of using Ctrl»Tab when I use this mode.

                          Yes, I ment to completely disable (temporary) your mousepad to test the behaviour of IrfanView on your system.

                          If I would have an immediate view of thumbs from files in a folder I wouldn't use IrfanView's Browser mode. I think I'd use the FastStone viewer and set a place for the database in the Properties (F12). Another option is XnView which even offers an editable database (also F12). They are both installed on my system but I prefer IrfanView as it is the fastest when browsing in Windows mode as well as Full screen mode. An Enter on a graphic file in my file manager almost immediately brings it on screen. No other viewer can keep up with IrfanView. Just hold the Arrow key when viewing files in the MS-Windows viewer and you'll see what I mean.

                          Comment


                            #28
                            Originally posted by Sjef View Post
                            If I would have an immediate view of thumbs from files in a folder I wouldn't use IrfanView's Browser mode. I think I'd use the FastStone viewer and set a place for the database in the Properties (F12). Another option is XnView which even offers an editable database (also F12). They are both installed on my system but I prefer IrfanView as it is the fastest when browsing in Windows mode as well as Full screen mode. An Enter on a graphic file in my file manager almost immediately brings it on screen. No other viewer can keep up with IrfanView. Just hold the Arrow key when viewing files in the MS-Windows viewer and you'll see what I mean.
                            Yes, those are probably better options. Windows Explorer is nice because you can fit a lot of thumbnails on your desktop at once. By SHIFT+Clicking a folder, you can hide the file names and squeeze so many more! You can quickly hide the folder pane and view fullscreen, too. With TweakUI, you can make the thumbnails as small as 32x32, and as large as 256x256, or anywhere in between. Combining all of that can put 16x17= 272 thumbnails on my 1024x768 15.4" screen! And half of another 16 are actually visible too! Considering the quickness of the rendering, the customization, and the familiar commands/shortcuts, Windows is a great thumbnail browser. I know, you don't like it right?

                            Opening a file is fairly fast with IrfanView. Browsing in Window or Fullscreen modes is quite quick, too.

                            I tried holding the arrow key down in the Windows Picture and Fax Viewer, but I'm not sure what you mean. For some files, it is faster than IV. Others though, take a dreadful amount of time to load. Previously viewed files are fairly quick in the MS-viewer as well.

                            But, it is interesting how it works. While it may take a long time to load an image, you can browse to an image unbelievably fast (usually too fast). This is not possible in IV. When browsing in IV, each image tries to load, which stops the browsing process until it's finished. So, unless you use a different method (e.g. directory index, thumb browser), it is very difficult to browse to a specific image quickly. Version 4.1's introduction of CTRL+Space helps a bit.

                            Comment


                              #29
                              When I wrote to hold the Arrow key in the Windows viewer, I ment a folder without a Thumb.db file of course. I don't turn away this Windows viewer. I suppose many people use it with great pleasure. I don't think they use 32x32 pixels for their thumbnails though.

                              Comment


                                #30
                                Originally posted by Sjef View Post
                                When I wrote to hold the Arrow key in the Windows viewer, I ment a folder without a Thumb.db file of course.
                                Not sure what you mean. What difference does a Thumb.db file make, when viewing pictures in the Windows Picture Viewer? Are we confusing this viewer with Windows Explorer in Thumbnail view? If so, then without the database, thumbnail creation is necessary, and is definitely not instantaneous. However, it still appears faster than IrfanView's creation of thumbs; possibly twice as fast or better. Maybe it has to do with my settings in TweakUI?

                                I don't think they use 32x32 pixels for their thumbnails though.
                                I don't actually use 32x32 thumbnails. It was merely a description of how many thumbs you could see at once. I generally use 48x48, unless I want something special.
                                Last edited by Skippybox; 09.09.2008, 07:43 PM.

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