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    #16
    Originally posted by Sjef View Post
    There always is the Ctrl»Z buffer.
    The effects Undo buffer is filled with data X.
    After Applying an effect there's the Undo buffer to put X back.
    Applying the next effect (over the first one) will empty buffer X and put Y (which is X+first effect) into the Undo buffer.
    Cancel will use the Ctrl»Z buffer to put things back to were they were.
    That way there's no need for an extra buffer (in my opinion).
    Currently, there is only the CTRL+Z buffer, which is the same buffer that Effects Undo uses. What you describe are two buffers:

    CTRL+Z buffer: W, then X
    Effects Undo buffer: X, then Y, then ...

    So, an extra buffer would be needed for your request. Both bitmaps (X and Y) would need to be kept in memory in addition to the current image (Z). That is three times the memory instead of only two.

    W (previous)
    X (original viewer image)
    Y (X+first effect)
    Z (Y+second effect)

    So, your suggestion would work well to solve my problem because the CTRL+Z buffer would be somewhat independent. It would just need to keep W in the CTRL+Z buffer until you change X, then put X in there. That way if you cancelled, you wouldn't lose W by just opening Effects.

    Hopefully, Irfan can manage these buffers for better memory management, so they aren't unnecessarily used. Only thing I wonder is what will become of the Effects Undo buffer if you turn off Undo in the program? Currently, it is disabled, but that's only because it is the same as CTRL+Z.

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      #17
      When Undo is unchecked in Properties»Browsing / Editing, no Undo (or Ctrl»Z) is present. Not even in the Ctrl»E dialog.

      Strange thing is that the Undo button seems to influence -randomize- the effects Explosion, Rain Drop, Noise and White Noise! Even when applied to the original (again, when Undo is off and after restarting IV). And of course, Cancel doesn't work regardless Undo is off or on. I can't see the logics behind the OK and Cancel button, they both work the same. The Cancel button must be called 'Back' because there's no effect to Cancel (not changed since version 3.7).

      In the end I think the Effects 'Undo buffer' is the same as the Ctrl»Z buffer. When there would be an Effect buffer present, the Ctrl»Z buffer could be enhanced with a Redo option ( = the content of the Effect buffer, which could be used for other purposes too).

      I don't think IrfanView would grow much when there would be one real Effect buffer. Now I have to start up Ctrl»E for each filter, because I want to be able to view the result on the whole graphic instead of the little preview window, which isn't usable for most effects. The alternative is to use Ctrl»C and Ctrl»V which Mij was talking about.
      Last edited by Sjef; 12.08.2009, 11:37 AM.

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        #18
        Originally posted by Sjef View Post
        ...because I want to be able to view the result on the whole graphic instead of the little preview window, which isn't usable for most effects.
        I think that is the crux of the issue, Sjef. The preview window is too small to judge how the effect will look on the image itself. There is a secondary issue (that may be connected with other points you make) that some of the effects actually are different when applied to the image, because the real image is a different size. That is why it is usually necessary to Apply to Image which is the main reason IMHO why the Undo and Cancel buttons are in such a mess.

        The 8bf filters have to be self contained, so usually have sensibly sized preview windows, often with built in pan and zoom, and Undo only ever applies to the Preview itself. I think the Effects browser might be better if it emulated them.

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          #19
          Originally posted by Sjef View Post
          When Undo is unchecked in Properties»Browsing / Editing, no Undo (or Ctrl»Z) is present. Not even in the Ctrl»E dialog.
          Yes, but only because they are the same thing. If you start to have two buffers, should Properties disable one or both?
          I can't see the logics behind the OK and Cancel button, they both work the same. The Cancel button must be called 'Back' because there's no effect to Cancel (not changed since version 3.7).
          There is some logic to them actually. OK will apply the currently selected effect and closes the dialog. Cancel does not apply the currently selected effect and closes the dialog. This is different from Undo, which restores the original, keeps the dialog open, and previews the selected effect. Apply to original applies the currently selected effect, keeps the dialog open, and previews the selected effect. So, you see, all have a purpose.

          If you didn't have Cancel, there would be no way to avoid applying an effect once more before you left the dialog (or apply none at all). Now, the reason OK and Cancel appear the same is because once you apply an effect, you can't apply it twice using OK unless you go reselect the effect in the left pane. If you alternatively select another effect, then OK works as well.

          In the end I think the Effects 'Undo buffer' is the same as the Ctrl»Z buffer. When there would be an Effect buffer present, the Ctrl»Z buffer could be enhanced with a Redo option ( = the content of the Effect buffer, which could be used for other purposes too).
          That would be kind of neat to make use of.
          I don't think IrfanView would grow much when there would be one real Effect buffer.
          No, it only becomes an issue when you work on larger and larger images. If your system can handle it, it's not so much of a big deal. However, I don't know the limitations of IrfanView's own memory consumption. That may be the real issue.

          Comment


            #20
            Ctrl»Z is not a typical IrfanView option. It's a Windows shortcut and should never be able to turn off. The option to turn off the Undo buffer was still present in version 2 and maybe it was an issue at that time (I never used it).

            Comment


              #21
              I have always used Control+Z for Undo - sheer force of (Windows) habit I guess.

              I reiterate my opinion: if it doesn't slow down IrfanView, if it does not bloat up the program's size, then a fixed number of multiple undos - maybe 3, maybe 6, I don't know - will probably be welcomed eagerly by users!
              Download IrfanView Help Manual from:
              IrfanView Website - Here
              Sam_Zen's Website - Here
              Author's Website - Here

              Comment


                #22
                Originally posted by WellOiledPC View Post
                I reiterate my opinion: if it doesn't slow down IrfanView, if it does not bloat up the program's size, then a fixed number of multiple undos - maybe 3, maybe 6, I don't know - will probably be welcomed eagerly by users!
                It probably wouldn't slow or bloat IV. But it could slow your PC. If you work on 75MB images (amount in memory, not file size), then 6 undos + current im age could take nearly half a GB of memory! This becomes a problem for people with only 1GB of memory that are running other programs/services simultaneously and a demanding OS. Not everyone has 6GB to work with and some have less than 1GB, especially on Win95. Of course, the smaller the image, the less of a problem this all is.

                If more undos were made available, the number of them should be configurable, and it should be possible to purge them somehow, too. Undo should also remain disable-able.

                Comment


                  #23
                  Originally posted by Skippybox View Post
                  It probably wouldn't slow or bloat IV. But it could slow your PC. If you work on 75MB images (amount in memory, not file size), then 6 undos + current im age could take nearly half a GB of memory! This becomes a problem for people with only 1GB of memory that are running other programs/services simultaneously and a demanding OS. Not everyone has 6GB to work with and some have less than 1GB, especially on Win95. Of course, the smaller the image, the less of a problem this all is.

                  If more undos were made available, the number of them should be configurable, and it should be possible to purge them somehow, too. Undo should also remain disable-able.
                  Yes indeed, that makes sense - too many Undos will spoil the broth! I used to work on PhotoShop on a Desktop machine for an assignment, some time ago. (My client insisted we both use PhotoShop...) The place had horribly frequent power cuts. And it was amazing just how quickly a 250 GB Hard Disk would get filled with PhotoShop Temporary files!
                  Download IrfanView Help Manual from:
                  IrfanView Website - Here
                  Sam_Zen's Website - Here
                  Author's Website - Here

                  Comment


                    #24
                    My startpartition is only 20 Mb but I've never experienced any filling by Photoshop. Not with any of the versions, from 5 to CS3 and not in my other partitions as well. Maybe your PC is not as 'WellOiled' as your nickname indicates

                    Comment


                      #25
                      Originally posted by Sjef View Post
                      My startpartition is only 20 Mb but I've never experienced any filling by Photoshop. Not with any of the versions, from 5 to CS3 and not in my other partitions as well. Maybe your PC is not as 'WellOiled' as your nickname indicates
                      It wasn't my PC, it was my client's! And I wasn't talking about his PC's Start Partition getting filled up either. My PC is WellOiled indeed, until the next time it breaks down!

                      Honestly, I do not fancy PhotoShop. However he, being a renowned photographer, does and so I had to use Photoshop too - after all, he was paying me good money! The website I created for him is www.nitinrai.com.

                      Hey, if your Start Partition is only 20 MB, you cannot be running Windows! And if you are running Windows, I guess you meant 20 GB!
                      Last edited by WellOiledPC; 16.08.2009, 06:43 PM.
                      Download IrfanView Help Manual from:
                      IrfanView Website - Here
                      Sam_Zen's Website - Here
                      Author's Website - Here

                      Comment


                        #26
                        Very nice shaped website! Indeed it is 20 Gb, not Mb. Maybe not enough for Windows7.
                        I was mistaken probably thinking about IrfanView, which is only 1582 kb and don't need the big space that Photoshop takes from a system. The Photoshop 'filling up' files are to be found in Documents and settings (on the start partition). Nice to know we both like IrfanView.

                        Comment


                          #27
                          Originally posted by Sjef View Post
                          Very nice shaped website! Indeed it is 20 Gb, not Mb. Maybe not enough for Windows7.
                          I was mistaken probably thinking about IrfanView, which is only 1582 kb and don't need the big space that Photoshop takes from a system. The Photoshop 'filling up' files are to be found in Documents and settings (on the start partition). Nice to know we both like IrfanView.
                          Err, did you visit welloiledpc.com or nitinrai.com? Either way, Thanks!

                          Yes indeed, I have been using IrfanView for a long, long time. I have also just completed a Free Help Manual for IrfanView, with the Foreword penned by Irfan! It is downloadable from www.welloiledpc.com/irfanview.htm. It will also be freely available from the FAQs/ Tutorials section of the IrfanView site, soon. I also have a Comprehensive User Manual for IrfanView 4.25, priced at US$ 10, downloadable from the same link.

                          My Windows 7 RC Folder weighs in at 10.1 GB. So believe me, 20 GB is more than sufficient for Windows 7! Contrary to our expectations, Windows 7 is NOT resource-hungry, like Windows Vista! Indeed, a machine that can run Windows XP will comfortably run Windows 7 too! I am running Windows 7 in dual boot mode with Windows XPP SP3 on a 1 GB Dell Notebook without dedicated Graphics Memory and find that it is actually faster than Windows XP!

                          There is an entire section for Windows 7 on welloiledpc - www.welloiledpc.com/windows7rc.htm, where we discuss our experience with Windows 7!
                          Last edited by WellOiledPC; 18.08.2009, 12:02 PM.
                          Download IrfanView Help Manual from:
                          IrfanView Website - Here
                          Sam_Zen's Website - Here
                          Author's Website - Here

                          Comment


                            #28
                            To be honest, only nitinrai.com. But now I've read your last post, I will sertainly take a very good look at your own site! There's much to learn there!
                            So thank you for this reply and your assurance that 20 Gb is enough for Win7, on my new system in october. My plan is to purchase an SSD as my start/system disc.

                            Comment


                              #29
                              Originally posted by Sjef View Post
                              To be honest, only nitinrai.com. But now I've read your last post, I will sertainly take a very good look at your own site! There's much to learn there!
                              So thank you for this reply and your assurance that 20 Gb is enough for Win7, on my new system in october. My plan is to purchase an SSD as my start/system disc.
                              Thanks again and you're welcome!

                              My associates and I at WellOiledPC started with a thoroughly anti-Windows 7 opinion, as some of us had worked with Vista and HATED it for being so resource-hungry! But soon, we were impressed with it and now, we hardly ever boot into Windows XP on the Dell - we prefer to boot under Windows 7 every time! I'm confident you will enjoy running Windows 7 on your New Computer too! Best of Luck!
                              Download IrfanView Help Manual from:
                              IrfanView Website - Here
                              Sam_Zen's Website - Here
                              Author's Website - Here

                              Comment


                                #30
                                I consider a multiple-undo button nearly essential. I see no complication to adding it, you're simply storing multiple versions, with perhaps a user-definable limit. In fact, you could easily have a thumbnail scroll of all past variations for quick reference. I know of no photo-editing software that doesn't have multi-undo.

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