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    Forwarded A couple thumbnail usability enhancements

    I collect images... thousands of them... and then sort through to keep the ones I want. I use Thumbnail View to do this. There are a couple options I'd like Thumbnail View to have, to make this process easier for those of us with bad eyes, shaky hands, or slightly faulty equipment.

    First, an option to put additional space between the thumbnail images. Right now, it can be awfully hard to find a spot between images in order to click and drag-select. If you accidentally click on space belonging to an image, it will not drag-select, it tries to move the image. This is especially problematic between rows. An option for variable extra spacing between the thumbnails would be most welcome, and would ease this problem.

    Second, an option to disable double-clicking. Either my hand or my mouse is not entirely reliable, and I sometimes end up with a double-click instead of a click when I'm trying to select numerous images. The problem is that when I accidentally double-click, it both opens the image for viewing, AND clears out the selection, so I have to go back and select everything all over again. Since I'm not usually selecting things in blocks, but in individual images, this can be a real pain. You could either have an option to turn double-clicking off entirely, or simply disable it while the CTRL key is pressed, and it would solve this problem for me. Alternatively, if you simply didn't clear out the selection when the image was opened, this wouldn't be quite as good, but would be acceptable, if this is much easier to do...

    I've been using IrfanView for years, I love the program, and it is what I recommend to anyone looking for an image viewer. IV has more features than I will ever be able to use. These are just a couple little tweaks that would make it that much more useful to me... and I imagine a few other people, as well.

    Thanks for your time,
    Eric Storm

    #2
    Try using the keyboard instead — Shift + Left/Right Up/Down cursor to select multiple images.
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      #3
      The method you suggest only works if you are selecting one continuous block of images for deletion. This is not what I usually end up doing. It is faster to mark many images for deletion, and then delete them all at once, so I will usually end up with a discontinuous selection set.

      Using the mouse, of course, this is done with CTRL-Click to add a single image, and CTRL-Click-Drag to add a rectangular group of items. There is, as far as I know, no keyboard version of this command. I tried various things, but I could find no method of selecting a discontinuous selection set via keyboard. This would also be an acceptable solution to the problem, to allow a full discontinuous selection method via keyboard, something like: (just suggesting a method for demonstration purposes, not insisting these be the keys used...)

      SHIFT+arrows: mark a continuous selection set (mouse equivalent: click+drag)
      CTRL+Space: add a single item to a discontinuous selection set (mouse equivalent: CTRL+click)
      CTRL+SHIFT+arrows: add a set of continuous items to a discontinuous selection set (mouse equivalent: CTRL+click+drag)

      Something tells me, though, that it would be easier to make the changes that I originally suggested, rather than adding in this keyboard functionality. I could be wrong, though, and either method would solve my problem.

      Eric Storm

      Comment


        #4
        Bhikkhu Pesala's method is good but here are a few hints if you still want to do it the normal way.
        For poor eyesight the first thing to do is to set the background colors in the Thumbnail options to make it as easy as possible to see what you are doing. Try various color combinations to see what works best for you. I use Gray for the thumbnail background and White for the window background, but do make sure you choose two different colors. Otherwise it is difficult to see where the gap between the windows actually lies.
        However you rarely need to start a selection from in between thumbnails. Remember that what you are doing is drawing a box around those thumbnails you want to select and it is only those that are completely within your box that will be selected. So start a little above and to the left of the first and finish below and to the right of the last one. If the first thumbnail is in the top row where you have no white space above it, then drag in the other direction from last to first. That way you will not risk accidentally dragging a thumbnail.
        If you do double click on a thumbnail by mistake and open the main image then close it again by clicking on the red X and I think you will find that your thumbnail selection is still intact. It is clicking on the thumbnail window to get it back on top that clears the selection.

        Added later: Incidentally did you know that you can select more than one block of thumbnails by keeping Shift pressed as you do it. Once you get the hang of drawing boxes around what you want to select as I described above then you can work without using the CTRL key at all. Just keep Shift pressed down and draw boxes around any number of single or multiple thumbnails.
        Last edited by Mij; 09.04.2012, 10:38 PM.

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          #5
          A few points:

          1. because the thumbnail background color doesn't encompass the thumbnail name, it can be difficult to determine whether or not you're actually clicking in empty space. While you may not have this problem, I cannot count the number of times I've ended up selecting a thumbnail, rather than starting a drag operation.

          2. Just FYI, you do not have to fully encompass a thumbnail to select it. My experience says that IV will select a thumbnail with about 1/4 of the thumbnail inside the selection marquee.

          3. I realize that your average user probably doesn't have this problem. I'm legally blind, and either my hand or my mouse isn't working right. (I actually think it's my mouse, but I've done some pretty weird clicking-things with my hand, too, so... *shrugs*) I guess you would consider my request a bit of an "accessibility" feature.

          4. While you can use the SHIFT key as you suggest, it doesn't allow for single-click addition of a single item like the CTRL key does. When sorting through literally thousands of images, the extra time and hand movement becomes significant. Further, the CTRL key isn't the problem, the mouse navigation is.

          5. Closing the main window by hitting the X doesn't clear the selection, but closing the main window by hitting ESC does. Since I have IV set to open the main window fullscreen, hitting ESC is my preferred way of closing it. I have just discovered, however, that using ALT+TAB to get back to the thumbnail window without closing the main window will preserve my selection. While I can and will use this method for now, it is a real hassle, and still doesn't fix the difficulty making selections, so my original request still stands.

          I will restate my request here, in case it has become lost in the conversation:

          1. A customizable spacing between rows / thumbnails
          2. An option to disable the double-click capability in the thumbnail window

          OR

          3. Complete keyboard commands for discontinuous selection.

          Eric Storm

          Comment


            #6
            3. Complete keyboard commands for discontinuous selection.
            Perhaps this could be implemented by a new menu item "add selected item(s) to latest text file" and assigning an F-key to that function. - Once all the required paths/filenames have been added to a text file, the existing function "Load file list from TXT file" can be used, then CTRL+A and any operation can then be applied.

            I think I would use this too, as I sometimes make selections from a folder of several hundred images and clicking inadvertently during work has lost me my selection many times.

            currently running 4.56 / 32 bit

            Comment


              #7
              I can see this method being useful. Not as quick and painless as I'd like, but it would certainly do the job.

              Eric Storm

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                #8
                You already have a version of this feature, Jazzman, by using the slideshow list.

                First clear the Slideshow list by pressing W, selecting "Remove all" and closing that dialog.
                Back in Thumbnails after you have selected a bunch of images just right click and select "Append selected files to current slideshow".
                Clear the selection, highlight some more and append those too, as many times as you need.
                When you have finished Select Options > Load file list from TXT file. Browse to the Irfanview folder in Appdata or wherever and select the Slideshow.lst file. Open if to see all your accumulated selections displayed as thumbnails. (You do need Irfanview v4.33 to see .lst files displayed as well as .txt in that browse dialog - it is a fairly recent feature, but very handy.)

                Comment


                  #9
                  And this would be a usable option, if it weren't for one minor little flaw: There's no keyboard hotkey for "Append selected files to current slideshow", no way to set a customized hotkey, AND you cannot bring up the context menu with the context menu keyboard key. (or at least, I can't...) Which means you either have to do ALT+F and arrow down to the appropriate spot, or switch over to the mouse for this operation. I realize this may seem nit-picky, but if I have to spend even more time and effort than I'm already doing, it's not really much of an improvement, is it?

                  Eric Storm

                  Comment


                    #10
                    I know that there is no hotkey but I assumed that you were able to right click on one of the thumbnails that you had selected. You can change the size of the thumbnails if they are too small. The difficulties you originally reported were being unable to click in between the thumbnails and accidental double clicking, neither of which should be a problem here.

                    I have though proposed to Irfan that he might change the function of hotkey F4 to "Append selected files to current slideshow" when in Thumbnails view because the present action of F4 is not very useful and at times quite confusing. It would also be more in line with how F2, F7 and F8 work in Thumbnail view. He has not yet replied to that.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      You say "neither of which should be a problem here"... but either you didn't see me mention, or have forgotten, that I am not a "standard" user. I have both sight problems, and some minor coordination issues in my hands. I am "unable" to click between thumbnails because the space is very small and I have trouble both seeing where to click, and getting my hand to put the cursor in exactly the right spot. The accidental double-clicking may be either me, or my mouse, I'm not sure, but either way, it seemed easy enough to fix. Not aware of which method Irfan's used to program the GUI, I don't know how difficult it would be to add in the ability to adjust spacing between thumbnails. I know in some programming libraries, this would be insanely easy, and in others, it would be pretty tricky. Likewise with the double-clicking thing: I know it depends on how the code was written as to how hard it is to implement. It just seems that these should not be insanely hard additions to make, and I think it would probably help people who find it a little challenging to use the Thumbnails pane for sorting/deleting large numbers of photos.

                      Yes, I can right-click to bring up the context menu, but that defeats the entire purpose of keyboard navigation, which is to not have to move your hands back and forth all the time.

                      Eric Storm

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by Mij View Post
                        I have though proposed to Irfan that he might change the function of hotkey F4 to "Append selected files to current slideshow" when in Thumbnails view because the present action of F4 is not very useful and at times quite confusing. It would also be more in line with how F2, F7 and F8 work in Thumbnail view. He has not yet replied to that.
                        Irfan replied
                        F4: has no special function in thumbnails (yet), it is actually handled in main window only. Thumbnails window has its own menu for that.
                        I could maybe add F4 to Thumbnails too, if you like (append selected files to slideshow)
                        I intend to reply that, yes I would like it, and I think that both you and Jazzman might find that Slideshow list method a useful way of assembling a set of thumbnails to perform some collective action on them. You are not limited to them all being in the same folder either if you do it that way.
                        I should point out that I am just a user who occasionally writes to Irfan directly to ask for features. Anyone is free to do that and you can do so too, requesting your original features if you want to. I believe he treats everyone fairly and equally but it is worth carefully thinking through what you are asking for if you do not want to be disappointed.

                        For myself, I am still not convinced about the value of your request for adjustable spacing between thumbnails, Eric. I never find it necessary to click between the thumbnails themselves when selecting then. The normal method of multiple selection with Shift or Ctrl key pressed requires you to click on the thumbnails not between them, and the marquee selection method works best if you start the drag from a point between the names of the thumbnails in the row above not between the thumbnails themselves. If the names are too close together for you to locate the gap then enlarging the thumbnails will help. My hand is steady enough to click into the gap between two thumbnails but I don't because, even then, I also frequently end up dragging the thumbnail rather than the marquee.

                        I can understand why you want to disable the effect of a double click on a thumbnail. However it is the normal way to open the browser window and display that image, so consider perhaps asking that the double click action might be disabled just when Shift or Ctrl are pressed. Would that solve your problems without inconveniencing other users?

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Thanks Mij & Irfan. Yes, I think defining F4 in this way would be in line with the existing F7 and F8 and a good useful addition.

                          ... You are not limited to them all being in the same folder either if you do it that way. ...
                          I was aware of that, another plus of this solution.

                          Just for the record: I tried clicking horizontally between thumbs and drawing a selection. Even with a steady mouse and good eyesight I find it impossible. Starting a selection from an area vertically between thumbs works ok. So, starting above the first thumb to be selected and then dragging down and left/right will always work.
                          I am working with 100x100 thumbs with a thumb background set to a colour different from the window bg. I keep the thumbs in 3 columns.

                          currently running 4.56 / 32 bit

                          Comment


                            #14
                            A few points:

                            1. I did not realize that emailing Irfan directly was acceptable. I assumed that posting here was the proper method for requesting new features.

                            2. I have repeatedly stated that clicking in the space between the rows is where my problem lies. I understand that you may not have a problem with this, but I will also assume you don't have a serious eyesight problem. I can't count the number of times that I have accidentally clicked a thumbnail instead of starting a marquee selection, so whether or not you have the problem, the problem is valid.

                            3. At the thumbnail size I am using, it is literally impossible to click between thumbnails in the same row. There is no space that doesn't belong to one thumbnail or the other. Accordingly, I never try to do this, so how easy or hard it is isn't relevant to this particular discussion.

                            4. Yes, disabling double-click while any modifier key is pressed would be sufficient. It would almost be my preference. However, if you read my initial feature request, you would realize that what I asked for would never have inconvenienced anyone. I did not ask for double-click to be disabled entirely. I didn't even ask for it to be disabled by default. I asked for an option to disable it.

                            5. I wouldn't expect either of these things to be implemented if they were too difficult to do. However, my programming experience - and I do have some - suggests that they COULD BE ridiculously easy to do. It all depends on the nature of the code and the libraries being used. That's pretty much the only reason I made the request in the first place: because I knew it might be simple, with the understanding that if it isn't simple, it almost certainly would never see the light of day.

                            Eric Storm

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Regarding your point 2, I have added a picture to show that there is in fact no space between adjacent thumbnails at any size. These are 500x500 pixel thumbnails. I selected the block of 4 and then deselected the one at top left by clicking on it with Ctrl pressed. That leaves the normally invisible border around the thumbnail image showing in white and you can see, as you surmised, that the border extends halfway across the gap. The only space that is available to click on to start a marquee selection, is between or below the thumbnail titles. Easy enough, especially at this size, for the top pair but almost impossible for the bottom pair which have been given ridiculously long file names.
                              This is just to illustrate that you are probably no more disadvantaged than any of us when trying to find where to click. Remember though that the marquee selection has 4 corners and you can start from any of them. You do not need an empty space where you release the mouse button.

                              Click image for larger version

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                              Last edited by Mij; 15.04.2012, 03:07 PM.

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