Rejected Rearrange the Display Options sub-menu

[cybergon]

I've been a long time user of IrfanView and this has always been something I thought needed an improvement but only very recently did it occur to me that I should post it on the official forums. So first of all, hello everyone!

Alright, I have all kind of pictures saved, from regular camera pictures to comic strips, mangas, informationals, panoramics, etc. So depending on what kind of pictures I'm looking at, I adjust the Display Options sub-menu to better adjust to the specific size of the images inside each folder. This is kind of a pain, and it gets worse when the folders contain a mix of sizes, so if I check 'Fit images to window width' then some smaller images will get stretched out, but if I check 'Fit only big images to window' then all the taller ones will get turned into unreadable sticks which sometimes are too wide to use Ctrl+H.

So I was thinking, instead of requesting a specific feature to accommodate to this particular problem and clutter the menus with more options, why not suggest a more general solution that could encompass more problematic situations and at the same time simplify the menu? Well, this is my proposed rearrangement:



I've marked the options with colors so you can see how the ones on the current version can be replaced by combinations of the ones I'm proposing. Also, as it is implied, none of the right ones are mutually exclusive, so you should be able to check them all -or none- if you so desire. When I say 'These (orange)(yellow) override these (green)(cyan)' I mean that, respectively, fitting an image to the window should have more priority than fitting it to the desktop. I guess in that sense those are mutually exclusive, but I figured it would be the same this way than grouping (orange) with (green) and (yellow) with (cyan) and making them mutually exclusive within their groups.

So I guess that's all there is to it, hope I made myself clear and also hope to hear other points of view. Thanks for reading!

[Bhikkhu Pesala]

I think it would be an improvement, but what happened to "Fit Images to Window" (Shift W)?

[Mij]

I agree that it needs some improvement but cannot agree with some of what you propose.
I assume that in your dialog to get "Fit to window" you would either check both "Fit images to Window width" and "Fit images to window height". If so, I think that would be a step too far and would confuse a lot of users. I agree that "Fit only big images" should be a separate selection though so that, when set, it applies to all image fitting options.

I have often pondered how this dialog could be re-arranged to make it clearer. In my experience the feature that gives rise to most queries on this forum has been the "Fit to desktop" options. To my mind the dialog needs to separate "window" options from "image" ones and "Fit to desktop" should be in the "window" options.
My dialog would be something like this;
__________________________________________________ ______
User set window . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ) Toggle Shift+W
Autosized window (Fit to desktop) . . . . . . ) Toggle Shift+W
-- center window
__________________________________________________ ______
Do not fit image (1:1) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Shift+O
Fit image to window width . . . . . . . . . . . . ) Toggle F
Fit image to window height . . . . . . . . . . . .) Toggle F
Fit image to both . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ) Toggle F
--- center image
__________________________________________________ _______
Fit only big images . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ) Shift+F (Toggle on/off)

__________________________________________________ _______
Use resample for fitting
Use resample for zooming
Apply sharpen after resample

[cybergon]

I agree that it needs some improvement but cannot agree with some of what you propose.
I assume that in your dialog to get "Fit to window" you would either check both "Fit images to Window width" and "Fit images to window height". If so, I think that would be a step too far and would confuse a lot of users. I agree that "Fit only big images" should be a separate selection though so that, when set, it applies to all image fitting options.

I have often pondered how this dialog could be re-arranged to make it clearer. In my experience the feature that gives rise to most queries on this forum has been the "Fit to desktop" options. To my mind the dialog needs to separate "window" options from "image" ones and "Fit to desktop" should be in the "window" options.
My dialog would be something like this;
__________________________________________________ ______
User set window . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ) Toggle Shift+W
Autosized window (Fit to desktop) . . . . . . ) Toggle Shift+W
-- center window
__________________________________________________ ______
Do not fit image (1:1) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Shift+O
Fit image to window width . . . . . . . . . . . . ) Toggle F
Fit image to window height . . . . . . . . . . . .) Toggle F
Fit image to both . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ) Toggle F
--- center image
__________________________________________________ _______
Fit only big images . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ) Shift+F (Toggle on/off)

__________________________________________________ _______
Use resample for fitting
Use resample for zooming
Apply sharpen after resample

Yeah I like that, and I guess leaving the "Fit image to both" option there would make it a bit more intuitive, it's not unreasonable. But let me propose an even more intuitive way, that is to simply use the opposite statements, so on your proposed menu's second section it would go like this:

__________________________________________________ ______
Do not fit image to height . . . . . . . . . . . . . ) Shift+O
Do not fit image to width . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ) Toggle F
--- center image
Enlarge smaller images to fit . . . . . . . . . . . ) Shift+F (Toggle on/off)

All but 'center image' should be unchecked by default, that way there would be no confusion. Well, maybe there would be a bit, but I just wanted to put that on the table just in case. The main issue at hand is that the current options are a bit too specific and don't encompass every possibility, so I guess anything done in that regard would be an improvement.

[Bhikkhu Pesala]

I agree that this is worth doing as the current submenu has too many options. If you're satisfied that you found the best compromise, please forward your ideas to Irfan and tell him how you think it would work best. Let us know your results.

The thread starter should be able to modify the thread status using the thread tools at the top.

[Mij]

The problem with "intuitive" is that what seems intuitive to one user often proves anything but that to someone else. Irfan is usually reluctant to change things if he believes that it will confuse existing users and IMHO changing statements into their opposite usually does do just that.

Irfan also has to worry about compatibility between one version and the next.
When a new dialog appears in the latest release, many users still have INI files from previous versions and do not thank you if all their settings get changed. The 10 "fitting" options in the dialog represented at present by a single variable called Fitwindowoptions in the [Viewing] block of the INI file will have to map to at least 14 options in either of our schemes. That in itself will involve a certain amount of careful design, probably needing the introduction of a separate new variable for the "Fit only bigger images" option.

Irfan may agree to add a proposal to his long "to do list" but I am pretty sure that the harder the implementation the further down the list it goes and am equally certain that there are many items on that list that will never reach the top.

I confess that I had not got to point of working out how best to present my scheme to Irfan. I would not want to discourage you from presenting yours as Bhikkhu suggests but am myself conscious of the fact that I already have several feature requests lurking somewhere in the depths of that list.

[cybergon]

Alright then, I guess this is as far as my original intent will go. I wanted to call some attention about this and give my two cents, so I suppose that's done. If Irfan is such a busy fella then I guess there's no point bothering him with semi-cosmetic stuff that would potentially become a pain in the ass as Mij said. Might as well look for another image viewer that suits me, and I know that sounds like I'm being cheeky but I'm really not, it's just more practical that way. So see you guys some other time, hopefully!

[Mij]

Well keep on eye on the forum. I will try to find some time next week to make a proposal to Irfan. The ideas just need a bit of tweaking to improve the chances of them being accepted. I will post the reply from Irfan here.
I do not think it is just cosmetic. The dialog is confusing and I am sure Irfanview often loses users as a result. It certainly took me a long time to work our what all the options do.

[Mij]

For information, I did send these ideas to Irfan but I do not think he was persuaded. The problem is that it is a sub menu not a dialog so you can only change one function at a time - the menu closes as soon as it is clicked. So having more separate functions does make it harder to set even if there are a lot fewer options within each function.

Irfan clearly does not see the large number of options listed in a single function to be a problem since he said that he intends to add two more to it in the next program issue. That will then make it 12 choices.