Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Editing IPTC data loses tag 50 (Reference number)

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    Fixed Editing IPTC data loses tag 50 (Reference number)

    I am using IPTC tag 50 (referred to as ReferenceNumber in exiftool), but an change I make to other IPTC data using IrfanView causes tag 50 to be lost.

    Is there a workaround for this?

    #2
    IrfanView destroys some IPTC tags when editing others.

    I posted this problem in the Support board about two years ago. I received no response there, and the problem persists.

    I use Exiftool to manipulte IPTC (and other) tags in my .jpg files. At times it would be nice to be able to use IrfanView's GUI to make individual additions and corrections. However I am using some tags which IrfanView does not recognize by name, in particular tag number 50, ReferenceNumber. Note that IrfanView will display tag 50 in full-screen mode.

    It seems that if I add or make changes to IPTC tags using IrfanView tag 50 is deleted. I haven't check to see if any other tags are damaged, nor exactly which operations cause this, but I would think that deleting valid tags should be considered a bug.

    I am attaching a test file, one with tag number 50 set (to 00000000), the other after adding some additional tags in IrfanView.

    Is there any chance of getting this fixed?
    Attached Files

    Comment


      #3
      You seem to have posted several times about this issue, but have you submitted any bug report to Irfan Skiljan? See Help, About for Irfan's email address.
      Before you post ... Edit your profile • IrfanView 4.62 • Windows 10 Home 19045.2486

      Irfan PaintIrfan View HelpIrfanPaint HelpRiot.dllMore SkinsFastStone CaptureUploads

      Comment


        #4
        No, I have not. I had assumed that he either monitored the forums or that problems were passed on to him, and did not want to bother him directly. I will send my comments and the example to him. Sorry for not understanding the protocols.

        Comment


          #5
          Please, report, when you get his answer. You can also find some very old posts here, complaining about this 'limited' support for IPTC and EXIF metadata, and requests for improvements, XMP support etc. I know, this are not trivial things to do, but it looks that the last major improvement was introduction of unicode plugin's ability to write IPTC metadata in 2011.

          And IPTC:CodedCharacterSet is another tag that gets lost after editing IPTC with IV. If set so, IV (32-bit only at the moment) can write metadata in UTF-8, but it does not write the CodedCharacterSet:UTF8 tag and it deletes it, if it is already there. I am actually using ExifToolGUI as one of the IV external editors, avoiding IPTC most of the time, preferring XMP and using Daminion as my 'digital media management' program.

          Cheers!
          IrfanView 4.62 64-bit

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by calberga View Post
            No, I have not. I had assumed that he either monitored the forums or that problems were passed on to him, and did not want to bother him directly. I will send my comments and the example to him. Sorry for not understanding the protocols.
            Irfan doesn't monitor the forums. I will often report a bug if I can reproduce it and understand it's a bug, if not I will leave it for others to do. It's good to have some discussion here first, then anyone can send a bug report.

            Reporting Bugs Sticky Thread
            Before you post ... Edit your profile • IrfanView 4.62 • Windows 10 Home 19045.2486

            Irfan PaintIrfan View HelpIrfanPaint HelpRiot.dllMore SkinsFastStone CaptureUploads

            Comment


              #7
              Irfan told me that he doesn't look at the forums. I received a most speedy reply (and thanked him for it) and I have expanded on my view of the problem and will post the resolution here when I have heard from him again. Thank you for pointing me in the correct direction.

              Comment


                #8
                Jacal

                Unfortunately, the Exiftool GUI, while not damaging any extant tags, also limits the set of editable tags (at least in my understanding). I don't know Daminion, so will have to look at it. I am using a cobbled-together collection of programs.

                I have make heavy use of Exiftool -@ argfiles which I (mostly) generate using small LISP programs (using clisp). Some are one-off, some are reusable. I also have used the Paradox db system to select files to be processed. I'm an old programmer, but a neophite in this area and am using whatever I can find. As another example, I use Picasa for face-recognition, then extract the information from its .ini file and generate my own format name-rectangle keyword values.

                I don't really know how to use XMP, and worry that I may have to write some sort of complicated parsing program to get the various tag values into my LISP programs. When you are past 80 you (or at least I) sometimes hesitate to tackle unfamiliar data formats! I also have firm but odd ideas about file directory structures and really don't want some over-arching program dictating them.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Jacal, whenever it is convenient,

                  I am appending my correspondence with Irfan. I guess I didn't make my case very well, as (you will see) he is only "saving" the specific tag I was having a problem with. Which means that there may well be tags which I use in the future that will be damaged. Note that the e-mails are top-posted, so you must start at the bottom and work up to see them in order.

                  At 12:28 22.08.2015, Irfan Skijan wrote:

                  Dear Cyril,

                  There are many many non-used IPTC tags ... it makes no much sense to show such rare tags.
                  Only if I get MANY user requests

                  => attached is a new 32 bit plugin DLL, unzip it over your existing DLL.

                  The tag should be re-saved now, no editing, just the old tag value will be saved.

                  OK?


                  At 16:16 20.08.2015, Cyril Alberga wrote:
                  > Dear Irfan,
                  >
                  > Sorry, I somehow missed you question about the plugin. I'm currently using XP on a 32 bit machine and W7 on a 64 bit laptop. I didn't realize my error until I looked for an attachment!

                  At 16:01 21.08.2015, Cyril Alberga wrote:
                  > Dear Irfan,
                  >
                  > Thank you very much for your quick response. I am not (was not, since you have already made some changes) asking that you expand the set of tags that you display and/or allow to be edited in IrfanView. I am only asking that the IrfanView tag editor no effect any of the other tags. I am currently using a number of those, and may be adding more to those I set. Exiftool allows me to manipulate these as needed, but since I spend most of my working time in IrfanView's thumbnail display it would simply be more convenient, when wish to change one of the tags which your program does recognize, to open the file from there and make the change.
                  >
                  > So, I am asking if it is possible to preserve all extant tags in a file when using the IrfanView tag editor, whether they are accessible from it or not.
                  >
                  > If replicating the behavior to mimic that of Exiftool is unreasonable I will understand completely, as a (long retired) programmer of 57 years experience. I know that possible and practical are not the same things.
                  >
                  > Yours truly,
                  >
                  > Cyril N. Alberga
                  >
                  > PS you would probably laugh at my methods, writing small LISP programs to generate scripts for Exiftool, and IrfanView for renaming, etc.
                  >
                  > CNA

                  At 03:14 21.08.2015, Irfan Skijan wrote:
                  >> Hi,
                  >>
                  >> Sorry, I don't know what happens in the forum, I don't read/work there.
                  >>
                  >> The IPTC dialog doesn't show all possible IPTC tags, just the important tags. (like in (older) Photoshop).
                  >> And not used tags will be not saved
                  >>
                  >> This not really a bug ... only the tags from the dialog are visible and saved.
                  >>
                  >> But, I can add some special handling
                  >>
                  >> => OK, added ... can I send you a new plugin DLL?
                  >> (32 or 64 bit ?)
                  >>
                  >> Do you need any other special tags to be saved?
                  ---


                  At 17:02 20.08.2015, Cyril Alberga wrote:
                  >>> Dear Sir:
                  >>>
                  >>> Let me preface this note by saying that I hope this is the correct address for my problem. I have posted queries in both the support and bugreport sections of the English language forum and was advised by the moderator to contact you directly with my problem. This is the only e-mail address I have found.
                  >>>
                  >>> I use Exiftool to manipulate IPTC (and other) tags in my .jpg files. At times it would be nice to be able to use IrfanView's GUI to make individual additions and corrections. However I am using some tags which IrfanView does not recognize by name, in particular tag number 50, refered to as ReferenceNumber in Exiftool. Note that IrfanView will display tag 50 in full-screen mode.
                  >>>
                  >>> It seems that if I add or make changes to IPTC tags using IrfanView tag 50 is deleted. I haven't check to see if any other tags are damaged, nor exactly which operations cause this, but I would think that deleting valid tags should be considered a bug.
                  >>>
                  >>> I am attaching a test file, one with tag number 50 set (to 00000000), the other after adding some additional tags in IrfanView.
                  >>>
                  >>> Is there any chance of getting this fixed?
                  >>>
                  >>> Yours, a very happy user save for the above problem.
                  >>>
                  >>> Cyril N. Alberga

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Pretty much the response I expected. IrfanView is not a tagging program, and it's too much work to add comprehensive support for features that most users don't need. The best advice is to do your tagging in other programs only after all other editing is finished.

                    The bug with tag 50 is fixed. If you could attach the zip file of the DLL that fixes this, anyone else finding this thread in the future won't need to wait for the next official plugins update.
                    Before you post ... Edit your profile • IrfanView 4.62 • Windows 10 Home 19045.2486

                    Irfan PaintIrfan View HelpIrfanPaint HelpRiot.dllMore SkinsFastStone CaptureUploads

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Cyril,

                      as properly described, ExifToolGUI is a "GUI for viewing meta information with some editing features". One can make multiple "workspaces", adding IPTC, EXIF and XMP tags, but nothing else (no maker notes etc.). Some additional ExifTool commands can be launched from ExifTool direct thingy, where also arg files can be used. Most of the time this is good enough for me, but since you are a fluent ExifTool user and a programmer, you most likely don't need it at all. (But the fixed dll from Irfan would still be interesting to have.)

                      Cyril and Bhikkhu Pesala,

                      I have decided not to bother Irfan with "my" disappearing IPTC:CodedCharacterSet tag, it looks that I am the only one here interested in this, and I can deal with it in multiple different ways. Irfan also does not seem to be prone to complicate his life with language-specific characters, writing his family name usually with an S instead of an Š. And adding the UTF-8 tag could trigger additional problems, at least with files, tagged by different authors, using different tools and languages. (And, in the past, Irfan has fixed some quite exotic things, when I asked him. This was more than enough for me.)

                      Daminion is a promising "DAM" (Digital Asset Management) program with reasonable metadata mapping rules, trying to be compatible with Adobe's and similar professional programs, not expensive and easy to use. The limitation of free version is 15,000 images (or whatever) per catalogue. Try it if you think you need something like this.

                      Thank you, be well,

                      Mart
                      IrfanView 4.62 64-bit

                      Comment


                        #12
                        The editing is mostly done in other programs as well. Straightening of images, cropping, color correction tend to be done in Corel PhotoPaint. Any renaming other than fairly simple is done in MP3/Tag Studio -- yes, I know it is for music files, but it has one of the best renaming function (short of using regular expression). Images are often edited after tagging, and tagging is an ongoing process as I elaborate the metadata I need. I mostly use IrfanView for the operations preformed from the Thumbnail page, adding sequental numbers to file names, loss-less rotations (most editing is done on .bpm files, to avoid multiple decompress/re-compress operations), and reorganizing my directory structure.

                        Fortunately for those who are not "most users" Exiftool is meticulous in it treatment of all tags. Unfortunately most of its power is accessible only via command-lines in a DOS-box, and the available GUI does not match IrfanView's Thumbnail GUI. It is also slower than one might want, being written in an interpretive language (Perl) which I confess I do not know. If someone could construct and interface between IrfanView and Exiftool That would be a blessing, but it appears that neither side values that which is good on the other.

                        Given the great programming in IrfanView in most instances, I was lulled into assuming that metadata in files would be safe. That turns out not to be the case. At the very least the Information sub-window should have a very large, very bright warning that any use of its editing features could irrevocable destroy an metadata that "most users don't need". I would really like to see a description of what other data is at risk. Is XMP data safe? Is exif data? What other information will I lose if I carelessly correct a typo when looking at metadata in IrfanView?

                        The "bug fix" is hardly that, it is a ad hoc patch over the gaping hole in the handling of metadata. I will append the DLL, but I am, personally, not using it. I am simply avoiding the dangerous editing facility provided, since I have no way (other than losing data) for telling what is safe and what is not.
                        Attached Files

                        Comment


                          #13
                          A simple envoi, illustrating my point--that it is impossible to predict what tags will be important of some (if not "most") users.

                          I have abandoned the use of the particular tag treated in this thread, and (for some good reasons) switched to that 5 (ObjectName). I will not be testing the effects of tag-editing in IV on this (and several other tags) as it seems fruitless to depend on IV to preserve user's data when manipulating tags. If I can't predict which tags I might use, how can I expect anyone else to pick and choose what to preserve and what to destroy?

                          Comment

                          Working...
                          X