Fullscreen "resample" option not working

[Skippybox]

Note:

Don't forget when you try comparing resampled zooming, to make sure you are using [View»Display options (window mode)»Fit only big images to window] and [Fit to screen: large images only (recommended)] in fullscreen mode.

[Sjef]

Resample

Hi,
It looks like you doubt the fact of me looking at your 800x600 pixels yellow Mazda. I myself have doubts about the way you interpret the Resample-option. To my opinion you are wrongly confused about ‘Resampled zooming’ as you call it. The option Resample is for fitting only, not for zooming, although IrfanView tries to interpolate the extra pixels when zooming in windows mode above 1:1. When you really want to zoom an image smaller then the screen, try the F-key (IrfanView ‘remembers’ this key after shutting off the viewer). Please try to use IrfanView in Recommended mode: this is the mode you will use in the end anyway. In the attachment two screenshots of a part of an image, zoomed to 200% with the option Resample on (Shift»W). The resolution of the image wasn't bigger than my screen resolution. Normally I never use this way of viewing my pictures; I don't see any benefits for such a way of viewing.

[Sjef]

Maybe this is what you're looking for. Easy zoom-in your images.

[Skippybox]

Re: Resample

Hello,

I'm glad you looked at what I was describing and you can see it in your shots too. I'm sorry if I am misunderstanding of the Resample-option, as there really isn't much of an explanation in the program of it.

I can see that the option could be used exclusively for fitting, but why does it alter the way zooming works, too? You say IrfanView tries to interpolate the extra pixels when zooming in windows mode above 1:1. Well, what is the point of that? This is what I am having a problem with. Either it shouldn't do this, or it should do it in both window and fullscreen mode. Note that it only does this interpolation with Resample option ON in the fitting display modes, not fit window to image (1:1) mode. Additionally, the image is resampled not only when zooming above 1:1, but also below it. Unless IrfanView has a special use for the term resampling in the program, I don't see a difference between resampling and interpolation of pixels.

Resampling is always in use no matter if the option is on or not, because when pixels are not 1:1 (bitmap), then either a subsampling or supersampling is necessary. I think when the Resample option is off, perhaps nearest neighbour is being used, but with it ON, Lanczos resampling or bicubic interpolation is maybe used. Also, there may even be a difference in the resampling method between fitting and zooming. I don't really know. The point of this thread was why is the Resampling option resampling during zooming, and furthermore, why is it doing it only in window mode?

The F-key (fit images to desktop) is not really ideal or different than fit only big images to window. Pressing the F-key in fit only big images to window mode placed me in 1:1 mode, which wouldn't allow me to zoom resampled. Pressing it a second time takes you to fit images to desktop mode and does allow resampled zooming. Since both larger and smaller images than my screen size need resampling when zooming, recommended mode makes little since, especially when needing to fit the larger ones. While we have been discussing v.4.10, isn't the default display option in v.4.20 now: Fit only big images to desktop? What do you make of that?

Shift+W did not actuate resample mode and I did not find it in the list of keyboard shortcuts. Is this in another version?

Nice image viewer link. I might just try it out, but I first want to make sure IrfanView is working properly.

Anyway, what do you think of all this and what did you determine based on your screenshots as to whether fullscreen should be displaying like window mode?

As always, thanks!

[Sjef]

Hi,
You wander what's the point of interpolation at zooming above 1:1. I think it's not very usable for the big images now these days, because it only takes time. But maybe it's handy viewing small images. Photoshop doesn't and exclusive interpolates images when resizing. You're right about the inconsistentcy of Resampling in Windows mode versus Full screen mode. Eighter IrfanView should interpolate in both modes or shouldn't Resample at all when zooming in or out. When Fit to screen or Fit to window is checked (with ‘Resample’ on) a special routine is used to quickly interpolate the pixels to the screen- or window size. No viewer I know does this job faster and so nicely. That's one of the reasons I use IrfanView. For me zooming is not an issue, so I don't suffer the disadvantages of it. I see the point of your threat and I can't answer the question of which methode is used. I agree with your remark that maybe different interpolation methodes are used between fitting and zooming. But as I said, I most value IrfanViews fast and fine fitting methode, in Full screen as well as in Window mode.

Why resampling during zooming in Windows mode only? Well, I can imagine a practise when Fitted to Window (Shift»W) is checked in the View menu. Make a little screendump of a piece of text and zoom in (with Resample on). What you get is a kind of softness which benefits the readability. The menu bar (Window mode) is needed when editing an image. Full screen is likely to be used just to view, not to edit. And yes, why did Irfan changed his own 4.10 option recommendations in version 4.20?? I can only suspect it's eighter an issue of styling or to avoid misunderstanding about the working of the (in my opinion) too many view methodes. Or it's an ordinary little mistake, because the word ‘(recommended)’ isn't moved. I also noticed the tree new zoom options in Properties»Viewing, but I haven't figured out yet how these option do their work.

Shift»W doesn't set the option Resample, sorry for my poor speach in my earlier threat. Shift»W (see View»Display options) together with Resample checkt is a rather nice attitude when one would want to resize the IrfanView window by dragging the handle in the right-under-corner of the window. No time consuming at ‘zooming’ this way at all.

The link to FSViewer was really to put you to the test of comparing the two viewers. I use IrfanView since version 1.99 (1996). In all the years untill now I tried (and use to show my clubmembers to compare) many other viewers like FSViewer, XnViewer, ACDsee2.44 portable, ACDseePro2, Jasc Media Centre, CompuPicPro. All nice applications, but Irfan allways comes out on top. I start IrfanView by giving an Enter on an image whitin Total Commander and almost immediate get my picture on the screen (started in Full screen/Fit to screen). Another Enter gives me the real pixels in Window mode 1:1 to criticize the colors and sharpness. I can edit pictures (and there are MANY options) using the menu bar or use Shift»E to edit my photographs in Photoshop.

So what do I think about the way IrfanView zoomes pictures? Well, if I'd want to zoom by hook or by crook, I'd use CompuPicPro to view my images. There is always pro's and contra's to software and I can't fiend much contra's in IrfanView. Maybe in future, when plugins gets in the way of the fastness/useness, I would use IrfanView with exclusive those plugins I really need. It's not only my ‘loyalty’ to the program, but also to Irfan, who made a very nice Windows application for free. That's why I look upon Irfan whom I appreciate a lot.

[Skippybox]

Wonderful!

It's great that you understand the issue I have been trying to convey to you! I like interpolation for all sizes of images, as more pixels always look better than less, up close. Like you said though, it all comes at a price: speed. I too, like that you can disable this once in awhile.

Yes, text does benefit greatly from resampling, but if fullscreen is for viewing, text would be difficult zoomed in with none. Zooming isn't just for editing, right?

I haven't tried 4.2 out yet. How exactly is the default viewing method indicated if 'recommended' hasn't been moved? What do you mean the new default could be for styling?!

I think I got your idea from your description of Shift»W. Which display method are you referring to though, as there are two with 'w' hotkeys? Also, within the menu, I don't think you need to press Shift, 'w' will suffice.

What is 'Total Commander'?

Yes, IrfanView is quite fast, yet simple, yet comprehensive!

So if the inconsistency of resampling in Windows mode versus Full screen mode is not a bug after all, what is it? Would this be another classification or simply a feature request? Where does such a problem fall?

Obviously this is the place to report bugs (which I thought it was in the beginning), but should I have started this thread elsewhere? Certainly someone can't definitively know it's a bug until it is verified, so should you only report here if you're fairly sure? This seems like the logical place to report, but I am confused?

Thanks for all the advice and explanations. I'll try to put some to work.

[Skippybox]

So, what now?

So, where do I direct my problem now? Do I need to make some type of formal request, for this feature to be possibly implemented?

[Sam_Zen]

Well, I must admit, after reading this whole thread I still stayed confused myself about the exact issue.
So if you decide to make this as a request, better re-tune the description about it.

What is 'Total Commander'?

Check it out here.
I got the impression that you're a person looking for efficency and speed and personal control.
You will probably never use the ugly Win exploder again, unless you have to.

[Sjef]

Zoom and Resample

As I said earlier, I don't see any benefits in zooming in on my images other then when editting in Photohop. The resampled Fit to screen option is very usefull and fine for me.

With ‘styling’ I ment the way IrfanView appears on the screen when using the version 4.2 as a new user for the first time. It appears Irfan has changed his mind about it.

I don't understand what you mean by two ‘w’ hotkeys. As far I know ‘w’ is to bring the Slideshow dialog on screen en Shift»W is Fit images to window.

Total Commander is a ‘must have’ file manager. It's a kind of continuation of the DOS file manager Norton Commander and still uses the same hotkeys. I began using this program in 1994 and I couldn't cope without it. By the way, it's on top of Irfan Skiljans Great Software list at his IrfanView website (Nice WWW links in the left-column).

As Sam Zen stated, make a request if need be, maybe Irfan will look at this zoom-‘Resample’ problem you're confronted with. Lots of joy with IrfanView.

[Skippybox]

Clarification

I think I know why we're confused about Shift»W. You see, I had been using IV4.10, when you were referring to the new hotkey, 'Shift+W', which has appeared in IV4.20 for 'Fit images to window'. Since I hadn't known about that hotkey until I recently tried 4.2 (although you'll notice from one of my previous posts I had a hunch), I thought you were referring to the hotkey in the menu name for the command.

Perhaps my use of hotkey was not the right word, since it can be confused with shortcut keys, like you thought. Maybe your more familiar with the term 'keyboard accelerator' which is sometimes used to describe it. A keyboard accelerator allows you to select a menu command or button by pressing ALT+<single letter>, or when you are within a menu/submenu by pressing just <single letter>.

For example, to open the View menu, press ALT+V. If you are in the submenu Display options (window mode), to select Fit images to window, press w. Oddly though, the option Fit only big images to window uses w as well, which slows the acceleration down. This is why I didn't know which 'w' you might be referring to.

You are correct that 'w' is the hotkey (shortcut-key) for the Slideshow dialog.

All in all, probably all very obvious to you. But, when using two different versions things can get misconstrued. I guess the long-awaited simultaneous release of 4.2 and the development of this thread made that possible. Perhaps, 4.2 should have been added as an option to our profiles quicker?

BTW, I tried FastStone Image Viewer. It does work as I would like for the resampled zooming and its easy to disable, too. Very nice viewer, but it lacks several things that make IrfanView great! Hopefully, Irfan will add this feature!

[Sam_Zen]

As far I know ‘w’ is to bring the Slideshow dialog on screen

Yep, I wondered about that one too. It's already assigned.
I don't think it's possible to make any distinction between a 'hotkey' or a 'shortcut' as long as KB inputs are involved.

About TC : not only that IV points to this app prominently, but inside TC IrfanView is the programmed default app as a viewer.

[Sjef]

Perhaps, 4.2 should have been added as an option to our profiles quicker?

Right! Sorry. I assumed you had updated IrfanView before putting your thread. Forgot to mansion: Properties»Full screen»Set display multiplier. With this option (e.g. 200%) you'll get a zoomed and resampled image on your screen.

[Skippybox]

Profiles, 4.2, zoom, and hotkeys!

Well, its nice to see 4.2 was added to our profiles. Coincidence that it appears after I mention it? I'm using 4.2 now so I guess all is good. The multiplier option is a great suggestion, but would be a bit slow to change. On the upside though, it is a great way to do a custom zoom level, which many are after in IrfanView!

As far I know ‘w’ is to bring the Slideshow dialog on screen

Yep, I wondered about that one too. It's already assigned.
I don't think it's possible to make any distinction between a 'hotkey' or a 'shortcut' as long as KB inputs are involved.

I'm not sure I understand what you mean. Can you clarify? I think a distinction can be made between a keyboard accelerator and a shortcut key. Shortcut keys cannot be used within menus, only keyboard accelerators can. I don't know what the term 'hotkey' really encompasses, whether it includes just shortcut keys or accelerators keys, too. I'm sure people interchange the names a lot and they probably mean the same thing by now.

[Sam_Zen]

I'm afraid I can't clarify this due to lack of knowledge. But I think it's not impossible, that a main app can have some KB shortcut commands,
while the same key can have a different function with the same key-combi in a sub-routine of the main app as well.