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v4.23: Thumbs randomly don't rotate (using Vista)

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    Reported v4.23: Thumbs randomly don't rotate (using Vista)

    When I batch rotate JPGs in Lossless Operations using my new Vista computer some thumbs randomly fail to rotate in the Vista folder to match the pic, so I have to continue using the old XP computer to do this (this is not the only problem I've had with Vista). Do I have the latest version, 4.23? In XP all I had to do was to copy the batch to a new folder, or simpy erase the tumbs.db file, go back, then go forward again and the thumbs would be corrected. Is this program obsolete for Vista?

    #2
    I have never had that problem with Vista.
    Check that you have "Reset EXIF orientation tag" ticked in the JPEG Save options. If you don't reset that tag and you have Auto-rotate.. set on, it will rotate the image again when you view it. Can be very confusing.
    You need to save an image with that JPEG save option checked in order to keep the setting in the INI file ready for your next lossless rotation. Do a Save As and then delete what you saved.

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      #3
      Evidently I didn't explain clearly. When I shoot, I often shoot with the camera in the "portrait" orientation but they appear in the Vista folder as a landscape, with the image tipped 90 degrees. So I use this program to tip them 90 degrees to the upright position in the "lossless operations" thumbnail option. I never open the images, I just rotate them in batches of 100 or so at a time. The problem is this: I'm not having a problem with the images themselves, just the thumbnails not all rotating to match the image in the folders as viewed in Vista. The thumbs in InfranView are fine. In my Vista folders about half of the rotated images don't have a thumbnail rotated to match. I've tried everything to get the thumbnails to rotate correctly in batches...I don't have the time to mess with each image separately. It worked fine with XP but not Vista...I have read about others having the same problem but have seen no solutions except time consuming workarounds and rotating each image individually.

      Comment


        #4
        Yes you are right. That is a problem. It seems that if you rotate an image in Irfanview using the standard "lossy" rotation and resave, the File Modified date is changed. Explorer notices that and updates the thumbnail in its cache. If you rotate using the lossless feature though the File Modified date is not changed and Explorer does not update. The thumbnail image remains displayed as it was.

        I notice that Faststone Image Viewer does not change the date either for a lossless rotate, but Explorer does immediately update its cache in response there. So they obviously do something right in Vista that IV fails to do.

        The only way to update the Explorer Thumbnails in Vista as far as I can see is to delete the thumbnail cache using Disk Cleanup from the Drive properties or the Cleanmgr program. The cache is then rebuilt and displays the updated thumbnails correctly.

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          #5
          In XP, there is a "Refresh Thumbnail" command in the context menu. Does such a command exist in Vista?

          Many times when I copy images from my camera's memory card to my computer I use this command, since the database uses old images.

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            #6
            Vista is different from XP

            The problem is that there is no thumbs.db file in the Vista folder with the jpg thumbnails the way it was in XP, so all I had to do was delete that file and surf back and then forward and a new thumbs.db file would be created, showing the thumbs with the proper orientation. Apparently Microsoft, in their perverse wisdom, decided to take away the thumbs.db file in Vista so we can no longer clean up our thumbnails. I have no idea how to contact Microsoft for help, but they should fix this in Windows7. What a mess Vista is, avoid it if you can.

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              #7
              In my opinion it's not thumbs.db, but the thumbnail included in the EXIF data that are not rotated by IrfanView. The "Refresh thumbnail" option should do the trick.
              IrfanPaint developer
              The latest stable IrfanPaint version is the 0.4.13.70.
              IrfanPaint is now open-source (released under BSD license).

              Comment


                #8
                Where is the "refresh thumbnail" option in Vista folders of pics?

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by JPLefauche View Post
                  Where is the "refresh thumbnail" option in Vista folders of pics?
                  I don't have Vista, but maybe Mij can tell us. For me in XP, you just need to right click a file or selection of files in Explorer's Thumbnail View. The context menu should have a "Refresh Thumbnail" entry.

                  Click image for larger version

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                    #10
                    Can't find a "refresh thumbnail" toggle anywhere in Vista. It looks like until IV is updated it won't work with Vista for batch image rotation with rotated thumbnails. Very disappointing.

                    Update:
                    After more investigation I've read that there is no loss when images are rotated 90 degrees, complete with a demonstration at http://www.cambridgeincolour.com/tut...erpolation.htm Don't know what to think about it. My local photography expert advised me to do a rotation in IV and another with the Vista image totation tool and compare them zoomed in for detail. To my surprise the Vista rotation was sharper and preserved more detail...the IV image appeared to be more widely interpolated.

                    I shoot with a Canon 50D and an L-glass lens at 15 megapixels, so I've made an investment for the purpose of getting sharp detail and naturally don't want to lose any of it simply rotating portrait images upright. For now it appears that the Vista tool gets the not unless someone can explain to me what I'm missing. If anyone wants an example I'll provide one. This topic is important to me, I have no agenda and don't pretend to be an expert. I just want sharp photos that aren't degraded by rotation. I have read good things about IV, have used it for about a year with XP, but now I'm wondering if Vista has improved the image editing to the point that I no longer need IV. I'm very interested in any knowledge that can be offered in this forum.
                    Last edited by JPLefauche; 19.01.2009, 01:11 AM.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      As if there weren't enough reasons to dislike Vista! It seems that they did in fact remove that useful command.

                      From the web:

                      Windows Vista caches the thumbnails much more aggressively than XP (and it also uses them in many more places). Vista will not generate the thumbnails for files if it already thinks is has the thumbnails. After installation and configuration you may notice that the thumbnails are not created for old files, but they appear if you create copy of the old file (though only for the copy). XP had the "Refresh Thumbnail" command in context menu to resolve these cases, but Vista lacks it. You can use the Disk Cleanup tool in Start Menu\Programs\Accessories\System Tools to remove the old cached images.
                      I suspect the reason may be that they wanted to make the cache global so as to make managing it easier, rather than searching for all the individual hidden thumbs.db files in each folder. Of course, that doesn't offer much flexibility for minor problems such as these.

                      I suppose you may look in this location for the thumbnail databases to delete and maybe come up with a solution:

                      C:\Users\USERNAME\AppData\Local\Microsoft\Windows\ Explorer

                      or

                      %APPDATA%\Local\Microsoft\Windows\Explorer

                      Comment


                        #12
                        No JPLefauche et al, there is no Refresh Thumbnails option in Vista's Explorer. A lot of people complain about that. It is supposed to be automatic but, as in this case it doesn't always happen. Odd that sometimes it works and sometimes not after an Irfanview lossless rotation, but it works every time with Faststone Image Viewer. They obviously know something .....
                        One dodge, if you are desperate, is to drag with Ctrl pressed to make a copy of the file. Vista has to make a new thumbnail for that. Then delete the first and rename the second.

                        MItaly, the Exif thumbnail does appear to be rotated in the IV lossless transform. Can't view it in IrfanView of course, but it looks OK in applications where I can see it.
                        Vista does not put a separate Thumbs.db in each folder. All the cached thumbnails are stored in the Users Appdata/Local/Microsoft/Windows/Explorer folder. One big Thumbcache.db file for each thumbnail size. That is part of the problem I think. You can end up with a thumbnail right way up in one size and wrong in another.

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