RIOT plugin for Irfan View

[Sam_Zen]

If so, I would subscribe to get the developments.

[luciansabo]

1. Is it possible to allow resizing without using a resample method, like in IV?

Why do you preffer resize instead of resample. The most rudimentary resample method - Nearest Neighbour - offers decent speed and better results that simple resize. Simple resize is very ugly.

2. Could you add a revert/reopen command to restore the original image after changes?

It can be be tricky, because once the original image changes (now only by resample) the only place to recover is from disk. If the image is not a file (a DIB) it cannot be reverted.
To create a single undo I must store the original DIB. A single undo may be enough, as it is for IV. The problem is we will use then twice the memory used when resample is applied. For large image this can be a problem because RIOT needs already DIB size + compressed size + up to 2xDIB size for processing.

So, how might a difference arise between IrfanView and RIOT? You mention JPG. Would PNG and GIF be universal as well?

The difference comes from the use of certain parameters (such as baseline, huffman tables, chroma, DCT transformations). Some libjpeg variants have patches. I don't know what Irfan is using, but I don't think there are big differences.
For example I tested with a file:
quality 93, progressive, no chroma subsampling
IrfanView: 78.069 bytes
RIOT: 78.069 bytes
Exactly the same...

For PNG we use the same library (libpng) but different wrappers and probably different parameters that lead to different compression levels. The PNG support will be optimized in RIOT.
For GIF I don't know what IV is using. GIF size depends heavily on the quantization method and number of colors.

I am not leaving, but I don't be here on this forum for a long time. I like IrfanView, but I don't need to be here daily. Discussions about RIOT should be on RIOT's website and mailing lists.

[Skippybox]

Why do you preffer resize instead of resample. The most rudimentary resample method - Nearest Neighbour - offers decent speed and better results that simple resize. Simple resize is very ugly.

Resample is better for most images, but for some graphics you want to maintain the same colors and form, so resize is best. I don't see Nearest Neighbor in your resample list. Does it go by another name? What is the difference between it and resize?

I tried all the resample filters you have, but all were poor for simple resizing. Speed is not a factor whatsoever. Resize can be ugly if applied to the wrong image, but not all. Don't the RIOT previews use resize for viewing anyway? If you don't want to offer it, I can always get it from IV.

The problem is we will use then twice the memory used when resample is applied. For large image this can be a problem because RIOT needs already DIB size + compressed size + up to 2xDIB size for processing.

Scrap the undo then. You can easily cancel and reload. Reopen from disk would be kind of handy though.

The difference comes from the use of certain parameters (such as baseline, huffman tables, chroma, DCT transformations). Some libjpeg variants have patches. I don't know what Irfan is using, but I don't think there are big differences.

No, the differences do appear small. I was just curious how it could happen. Will any of these internal parameters make it to the interface for adjustment?

[Sam_Zen]

Discussions about RIOT should be on RIOT's website and mailing lists.

I think you've got a point there.
In this case, the RIOT plugin is a kind of 'sidekick' written for IV, while it's really about the stand-alone version.
Ok, it's an option in IV as 'save for web (plugin)', but it has not its own shortcut like the Paint plugin,
and isn't included in the basic download of the executable either.
If the RIOT plugin would have that status, it would be more relevant to have it sticky on this forum.

[luciansabo]

I see RIOT more as an extension rather than as a plugin. In fact I don't use RIOT standalone, I use RIOT as IV plugin, because it is more convenient for me to use IV for viewing and some other tasks. Many users may look for RIOT as a standalone program, because they don't use IV. It is a matter of choice.

If it hasn't got a shortcut it does not mean much, but I would like such a shortcut...
It is not included in the basic package because it is the author's choice. I would include it if you ask me, but it's not my choice.

I don't see Nearest Neighbor in your resample list. Does it go by another name? What is the difference between it and resize?

The box filter is a type of Nearest Neighbor filter.
The new pixel is assigned the color value of the closest neighbor. The new image will contain the same colors. The method works well for discrete data such as line drawings, but not very well with 'normal' photos. It has no antialiasing (staircase effect) and it recommended for especialy for enlarging line art, drawings, etc. It seems equivalent to what resize is doing but resize is even more rudimentary, because it simply zooms the individual pixels, and is not averaging on zoom out.
Look carefuly at these files to see the improvement - the IV file is resized and the RIOT file is resampled using box filter. Ignore the transparency from RIOT as the filesize or tranparency in not the issue.

So box is often better than resize for shrinking.

Will any of these internal parameters make it to the interface for adjustment?

I think it is not the case.

BTW: I released 0.1.15
v.0.1.15 (20 nov 2008)
- plugins bugfix: fail to open an unsupported image type even if it was sent as DIB and the image exists
The image type is displayed now in the original file info only if it is not BMP (avoid strange behaviour when image type not supported).
- bugfix: fit in window problems (again) fixed !
- minimum and maximum zoom constraints
- eliminated the nasty effect on image moving
- improved zoom accuracy

RIOT has been included in brothersoft.com archive also. It received the Editor's Pick Award. Also brothersoft will be a mirror for the latest development version.

[Skippybox]

So box is often better than resize for shrinking.

I agree the averaging does offer a degree of improvement. And if not averaging, box does work like resize much of the time. Sometimes though, you don't want any extra colors added to the image from averaging and just want it zoomed. Don't worry about it, IV can do it when necessary.

***

I think it is not the case.

Because it would cause clutter and confusion? Or because it wouldn't match IrfanView and be unnecessary?

***

I subscribed, but now what? Do I wait for a message or just start sending you e-mail? I didn't get any message about 0.1.15 being released.

[luciansabo]

Sometimes though, you don't want any extra colors added to the image from averaging

The box filter does not introduce new colors into the resampled image.
The averaring is good for calculating what pixel color should be removed. Resize is not capable of doing this.

Because it would cause clutter and confusion? Or because it wouldn't match IrfanView and be unnecessary?

You should not put an equal sign between the quality from jpeg settings you find in most graphic programs. For example Adobe Photohop automatically disables chroma subsampling for high quality images and you don't have a control over it. I think IV is doing the same thing. I doubt it messes with the DCT or the huffman tables.
I tested various methods to reduce filesize and I did not found other settings that substantially improve the jpeg compression. I will continue to read about jpeg and test more options.

The group's page is http://groups.google.com/group/riot-devel/
You are a member.

[Skippybox]

The box filter does not introduce new colors into the resampled image. The averaring is good for calculating what pixel color should be removed. Resize is not capable of doing this.

Sure it adds colors. Take a look at BorderBox.png. It only has two colors originally, RGB(0,0,0) and (255,128,0). After applying the box filter when shrinking it to 75x75, two extra colors, (192,96,0) and (128,64,0) are added.

The group's page is http://groups.google.com/group/riot-devel/
You are a member.

You mean, the only member. Well, I got 4 e-mails all of sudden.

A couple of problems:

First, two and some of a third message are not in English. I don't know what they say. The two messages look like duplicates from googlegroups. Your other two messages about 0.1.15 were very similar as well.

You say I am a member, but at the group's page it says I have to sign in and register to join. I don't understand why I have to have a google e-mail address, too and become a member twice.

What address do I send e-mail to, since there are two? Contacting author requires sign-in as well, which I assume requires using a gmail address to send from.

Am I supposed to just receive group e-mail and send from my yahoo address?

[Sam_Zen]

Hmm, reading this I won't become a subscriber. I don't want any Google or Yahoo blur involved.

[Al]

Thanks for RIOT plugin

Hi luciansabo
Just a brief note to say that the full RIOT plugin for IV has become a critical part of my general use of the IV program. For emailing, pasting into documents and general saving (after modification by IV). Many thanks, Al

[luciansabo]

I changed the list address because the first one has some problems with yahoo and google smamfilters. You may have received some emails from the old list.
You are a member in the google group RIOT with your yahoo address. This does not mean you need a google account. You can create a account using your own email address if you want to see the group files or pages.
To send messages to the group just reply to group messages or send a new one to riot-devel@googlegroups.com
To unsubscribe send an email to riot-devel+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com

You mean, the only member.

You have an attitude problem. I really don't like your irony.
There are 5 members in the group except me.

Hmm, reading this I won't become a subscriber. I don't want any Google or Yahoo blur involved.

You can use your own email address. All group emails will be sent to your email. You don't need to open the google website. If you have personal problems send or receive using the google server, then it's your decision. I think google groups is a very good free option.

I see it is averaging between black and orange. From what I read it should not add new colors, but it's not my personal implementation so I cannot tell you much about this box filter. This is part of FreeImage.
On the other hand try IrfanView resize on BorderBox to see what is doing to the margins. I never use resize in my work.

[Frank]

Some words in program menu of RIOT are not located vertically in a line!

Haha - I'm surprised, Skippybox doesn't find each bug!

See program menu in the GUI of RIOT v0.1.15 and v0.2.0!
(File, View and Help menu)

see:

(Click to view full size!)

Some words are not located vertically in a line!

These bugs are happen in RIOT v0.1.15 and v0.2.0!
Probably also in older versions!

[luciansabo]

Sorry, this is not my bug.
This is the way the compiler arranges icons and text in the menu. I cannot change this.
Shortcuts with no icons are aligned improperly.
Note that the shortcut's text should be aligned right, and you should not test if they are on the same vertical line left and right.

[Frank]

O.K. - I understand!
But is it possible to add icons to all text in the menu to have a correct look of the GUI?

[luciansabo]

Yes, in 0.3 with the new user interface.
What do you think about the new user interface? Did you seen the screenshots?

Did you subscribed into the RIOT development group ?

http://groups.google.com/group/riot-devel