Where is Paint Dialogue box?

[albertababe]

I have used IV for years & was so happy with the Paint plugin, until the paint toolbox stopped appearing when I click in the
Show Paint Dialoge in Edit menu. Uninstalled & re-installed IV & still same problem. Have latest versions of both IV & Paint DLL.

[Mij]

You have probably left the dialog off the screen somewhere. Usually caused when changing display resolution.
Find the i_view32.ini file, open it in Notepad and find the [Paint] section. Set TBXPos and TBYPos equal to 0 and resave. The IrfanPaint dialog should appear at top left of screen next time and you can then drag it back to where you want it.

[Skippybox]

Uninstalled & re-installed IV & still same problem.

Uninstalling and reinstalling programs sometimes is useful if you have a missing or corrupt program file. But, with simple and reliable programs such as IrfanView, you usually just have a problem in the INI settings file, which in most cases does not get removed during an uninstall.

The reason for this, is that settings are kept separate from main files in Application Data, so that your settings are retained even if you reinstall or upgrade your version. Therefore, you typically see no real benefit from a reinstall, if the main files are all in working order. Basically, unless you delete your settings, you see no change. In effect, just deleting your settings can be very similar to a reinstall in terms of restoring order to the program, since the defaults are used and things are reset. However, if you are confident enough, it is usually always preferable to correct the single setting that is root of the problem, like Mij advises, rather than wiping out all your settings for no good reason.

[WellOiledPC]

I have used IV for years & was so happy with the Paint plugin, until the paint toolbox stopped appearing when I click in the
Show Paint Dialoge in Edit menu. Uninstalled & re-installed IV & still same problem. Have latest versions of both IV & Paint DLL.

As Mij observes, your Paint Toolbar must be somewhere beyond the edges of your monitor!

Did deleting your IrfanView folder completely and re-installing it bring back your Floating Paint Toolbar? I'm sure that if you install IrfanView on a fresh machine, you will be able to see the Paint Toolbar!

[Skippybox]

Did deleting your IrfanView folder completely and re-installing it bring back your Floating Paint Toolbar? I'm sure that if you install IrfanView on a fresh machine, you will be able to see the Paint Toolbar!

This is the problem I mentioned in my previous post. In most cases, a user has chosen to place, for good reason, his INI in Application Data, not in the program folder. Therefore, when uninstalling or deleting the program folder, the old INI is retained for future use. In most cases, this is great, since the settings are preserved despite updates and re-installs. But, in this case that behavior does not help, since the problem is in the left behind INI.

On the contrary, as you say, some users will have left their INI in the program folder (if they can), and this will be deleted upon uninstall. So, the program will run correctly on the next install. As convenient as using a program folder INI is, the Application Data folder is still the ideal place (sometimes the only place).

[WellOiledPC]

This is the problem I mentioned in my previous post. In most cases, a user has chosen to place, for good reason, his INI in Application Data, not in the program folder. Therefore, when uninstalling or deleting the program folder, the old INI is retained for future use. In most cases, this is great, since the settings are preserved despite updates and re-installs. But, in this case that behavior does not help, since the problem is in the left behind INI.

On the contrary, as you say, some users will have left their INI in the program folder (if they can), and this will be deleted upon uninstall. So, the program will run correctly on the next install. As convenient as using a program folder INI is, the Application Data folder is still the ideal place (sometimes the only place).

I see what you mean, Skippybox. Would it therefore be a better option to NOT give users an option here, but to simply install the .INI file in one of the two choices that are currently there? I am not a Programmer, but is there any specific benefit in giving the user a choice for saving the settings file?

If the choice of savin the settings is removed, users who installed over older versions of IrfanView with the defunct option will need to be addressed as well. So any new version will have to delete the old settings completely and install the new, I would suppose.

The same problem seems to be at the root of bobh's Fine Rotation problem as well - you have yourself analyzed this problem threadbare in its thread!

[Skippybox]

No, both options are necessary. It still is a matter of choice, depending on how and where you use IrfanView. You don't have to be a programmer to see why.

Some people want a normal install with their settings separate from program files giving them great flexibility. It allows multiple users to share a single program on a computer with their own settings. As previously mentioned, it gives users an ability to manage the program without disrupting settings. It also is about conforming to security and the way the OS is designed, to prevent unauthorized manipulation of programs by isolating write access to only user areas.

OTOH, some people want a portable install that puts all their settings in one controlled place for easy access and/or no trace of use. It is also meant as a way to install the program in more than one place at a time or multiple versions.

Essentially, IrfanView's EXE and files are portable and need no install. It is designed to default to creating its INI in its folder if none is available. It is this INI that defines whether to possibly use another INI as the settings file, the path of which can be defined. So, you have much more control than the installer does of where you want your INI.

I don't think there is a one-size-fits-all solution here, people just need to be aware of the implications.

[MItaly]

There has been already an argument about this (link), and I stated my position here.

[Skippybox]

I don't think we are arguing about which is better. You yourself, agree both options are necessary since there isn't just one place where IrfanView could be installed. And even if you don't install in Program Files, you still may appreciate the User's Application Data folder for your INI.

[MItaly]

As stated there:

As a bonus there could also be a "Custom" mode, that would allow the user to enable/disable all these options.

The normal (and usually clueless) user doesn't even know that there is such a thing as a configuration file, let alone its position. The focus on an installer should be the overall task that the user want to accomplish, not the single settings (about which the user usually know nothing). So the user should just choose if he wants to install the application on the hard drive (stable installation) or to a USB key. These two macro-tasks would fine-tune some options:

• Installation path
  
  Normal installation: it should be defaulted to Program Files\IrfanView but should still be editable
  Portable installation: the setup should detect if any removable device is connected. If no removable device is found the user is warned about this and is proposed to choose the normal installation or to enter manually a path; if more than one device is found, the installer should present the list of removable devices and a special option "Other..." to enter manually the path. After the device (say, h: ) has been chosen, the path in which IV should be installed (default: h:\IrfanView) should be presented to the user for confirmation and for reference (he must know where to go to start it!), and a "Change..." button should still be present to select another target path. If only one device is found the device selection step should be skipped, since there would be no ambiguity.
• File associations
  Normal installation: the file association tab in IrfanView and the file association step in the setup should be enabled.
  Portable installation: the file association tab in IrfanView should be disabled and the file association step in the setup skipped.
• Start menu shortcut
  Normal installation: it should be created.
  
  Portable installation: it should not be created.
  
• Uninstall method
  Normal installation: an entry about IrfanView uninstallation should be created in the registry so that the uninstallation can be started using the Add/remove applications control panel applet.
  
  Portable installation: at the end of the installation a short text should be presented to explain to the user how to remove the application from the USB key (and maybe also how to start it... users tend to be dumb ).
  
• Configuration file
  Normal installation: should be placed in %appdata%\IrfanView; there should be put also the other per-user settings files (e.g. the lst files).
  
  Portable installation: should be placed in the executable directory.
  
• Executable packing
  Normal installation: the executable should be placed on disk unpacked, since for modern hard disks the difference in size of the packed and unpacked i_view32.exe is really negligible, in terms of both space occupation and reading time. Moreover, many antiviruses tend to suspect of packed software, and always unpack it by themselves, making the unpacking twice slower (it's done first by the AV and then by the executable itself). Note that this double unpacking seems to be really slow with AVG.
  
  Portable installation: the executable may be left packed, since on USB drives and other portable media space saving is important and the read performance is not always brilliant.
  
  This problem in my opinion is not really simple to solve, since unpacking the executable would request bringing in the setup also the upx.exe executable. Also a decision about keeping in the setup the compressed or uncompressed version of the executable should be made; it should be noted anyway that decompressing the executable is faster than compressing it, so it may be preferred to bring the compressed exe and decompress it if required.

All these options should anyway be customizable independently using the "Custom" mode, selectable at the beginning of the process; by the way a nice bonus should be to automatically present the list of the plugins and download them on demand, but I understand that this would be very complicated because many dedicated mirrors would be needed.

[WellOiledPC]

Essentially then, MItaly is saying that the options should be named so that it reflects the kind of install - Portable or onto the Hard Disk. With sufficient options to cover all possibilities.

Most users will know where they want to install IrfanView, though they will usually blink in ignorance, if you ask them where they would like their .INI files to be placed!

[Skippybox]

Yes, I have already agreed with what MItaly has said, but it refers to a different issue. Renaming and reorganizing options does not solve the clueless user's predicament why an uninstall/re-install does not bring the program back to its defaults. The user still is not truly aware that his/her INI will be left behind in %AppData%\IrfanView when doing normal installs. I am thinking the uninstaller needs to offer an option to remove it.

[MItaly]

You're right, also this is an issue. I may do some experiments on a new installer in the next days, I'll show you the results.

[Skippybox]

That's great!

[Mij]

Have we come unzipped?

All this discussion of providing a "Portable" option reminded me that there always used to be downloads for both an exe (installed) version and a zip (non-installed) version on the main website and we used to tell people to use the zip version for portable applications.

There are still both versions on the languages page but I had quite a struggle tracking down an English zip version. Have I missed a link somewhere?