IrfanPaint Support Thread

[Mij]

If you wanted to keep your 3 step method (for cloning), MItaly, you could still set the pickup point by right clicking, but lock it where the X is currently positioned, not where the + is.

I do not want to monopolize this thread but since nobody else seems to be posting at present it has to be 3 in a row.

After spending a bit more time on cloning I saw that what I had written above was very confused. Perhaps MItaly knew what I meant, I am not sure that I did. So here is another try.
The three steps at present are
1. Right click to place the source
2. Left click to place the target and start painting
3. Right click to gather the source back to the target cursor
and at present they have to be applied in the order 1,2,3,1,2,3.....

I wanted to be able to use 1,2,1,2,1,2..... It is especially useful if the source and target points are a long way apart because returning the source point back to its working area each time after step 3 gets tedious.
Now, though, I see that it is still necessary to use step 3 sometimes, because you cannot always move the source to a new area without taking the target cursor off screen. To use step 3 the sequence has to be 1,3,2...
I reckon that would be easy enough to use and fairly intuitive, just a bit harder to explain. I see that currently step 3 is not mentioned in the documentation anyway, so perhaps you can leave people to discover it for themselves.

[Mij]

Playing a bit more with copy and paste in IrfanPaint makes me even more aware how useful that Erase Back to Original feature is. To clone something large such as a person or a tree it is much easier to copy an area enclosing the object, paste it where you want it (after enlarging or reducing the box first to suit the new position) and then paint back the bits you do not want around the object using that Erase Back facility. I usually paste a "spare" copy of the object somewhere nearby so that I can clone a bit from it if I make a mistake, then just Erase Back the spare when I am finished.

Copy and paste via the clipboard is so versatile either copying from somewhere else on the image, from a panorama image as I described previously, from a second copy of IrfanView or even from another external program if it has a compatible copy feature. I begin to wonder whether Frank's suggestion really adds that much.

[Mij]

What do you think about a possibility to load/add external images with IrfanPaint into an opened picture?
With included ability to stretch (zoom in/out) an inserted image!
[/I]

I have often made a panorama of two (or more) images and then "copy and pasted" a bit of the second image onto the first. The advantage of working from one composite image of course is that you can drag the selection you copied from, to where you want it and if necessary resize proportionally before pasting. Undo and tweak the selection size or position until it is right.
Now with Irfanpaint you can clone from one image to the other too. I added another person into a group picture that way.
Amazing what you can do with a bit of ingenuity, but that does not mean I would not welcome an easier way of doing it.

[Frank]

I agree with tis answer!
Would be nice if you realize this suggestion!

[MItaly]

I could integrate it in the new "objects" functionality.

[Frank]

Inspired by the thread "Collagen unverzerrt?" from german forum, I would like to suggest an idea!

What do you think about a possibility to load/add external images with IrfanPaint into an opened picture?
With included ability to stretch (zoom in/out) an inserted image!
[For such an idea it would be necessary to add a new button ("Load picture into clipboard") to the toolbar of IrfanPaint!]


regards
Frank

[Sam_Zen]

An elegant workaround to avoid needing multiple undo-stages : "Erase to original"".
These procedures are often a series of small actions, being indeed difficult to find the exact position back where it went wrong.

[MItaly]

Most graphical editors show two cursors immediately after Shift- Ctrl- or Alt-click. Artweaver, PhotoImpact, Photoline, Paintshop, Photofiltre and Photohop, they all show this behaviour.

Yes, you're right. I'll make it show two cursors immediately after the selection of the source point.

Picking the clone tool in IrfanPaint for the second time (for instance after using the eraser tool), both old clone cursors (with their distance) are still showing. Not very nice.

What's wrong with it? I often use the clone tool setting an offset, then change to another tool for a quick edit and then revert to the clone tool, and it's very nice to still have the old offset.

In my opinion the Paint toolbar should have its own undo-buffer with at least 5 undo-steps back.

This is problematic. It would involve messing around in IrfanView much more than I already do, and I'm not very comfortable with it.

I don't myself see a need for that many levels of undo, Sjef. One of the attractions of the program to me is that "Erase to original" feature. It allows you to do a selective undo where the mistakes are, while leaving your other work untouched. For me that is far better than Undo.

Yes, I too like a lot that feature; BTW, it was suggested by someone here in the forum (link).

Yes, with the current logic, there is confusion when returning to Clone from somewhere else and finding the 2 cursors still showing. My students get it wrong all the time (and so do I quite often). They remember that the X is where you pick up the pattern and the + is where you put it down again, and that you have to set the X position first. So they move the X to where they want to pick up and right click to lock the position. Then they move the + to where they want to put down and start to clone, only to find that the pick up point is not where they expected it to be.

If you wanted to keep your 3 step method, MItaly, you could still set the pickup point by right clicking, but lock it where the X is currently positioned, not where the + is. The rest of the steps are the same as now. Logically, I think, when you first enter Clone you would see just the X (instead of the No Entry sign). After right clicking, the X would stay where it is and the + would appear close by. You would then position that as at present.

That again seems to me a better and less confusing way of working.

Yes, you're right; I'll change it this way unless I find a better solution.

[Mij]

I don't myself see a need for that many levels of undo, Sjef. One of the attractions of the program to me is that "Erase to original" feature. It allows you to do a selective undo where the mistakes are, while leaving your other work untouched. For me that is far better than Undo. A problem with cloning is that you tend to do a lot of little clones so the undo levels get used up very fast however many you have, and you can never find the one you want without undoing almost everything else first.

Yes, with the current logic, there is confusion when returning to Clone from somewhere else and finding the 2 cursors still showing. My students get it wrong all the time (and so do I quite often). They remember that the X is where you pick up the pattern and the + is where you put it down again, and that you have to set the X position first. So they move the X to where they want to pick up and right click to lock the position. Then they move the + to where they want to put down and start to clone, only to find that the pick up point is not where they expected it to be.

If you wanted to keep your 3 step method, MItaly, you could still set the pickup point by right clicking, but lock it where the X is currently positioned, not where the + is. The rest of the steps are the same as now. Logically, I think, when you first enter Clone you would see just the X (instead of the No Entry sign). After right clicking, the X would stay where it is and the + would appear close by. You would then position that as at present.

That again seems to me a better and less confusing way of working.

[Sjef]

Most graphical editors show two cursors immediately after Shift- Ctrl- or Alt-click. Artweaver, PhotoImpact, Photoline, Paintshop, Photofiltre and Photohop, they all show this behaviour. Picking the clone tool in IrfanPaint for the second time (for instance after using the eraser tool), both old clone cursors (with their distance) are still showing. Not very nice. The rightclick eraser tool even works on my drawing tablet (if I don't press the pen on the tablet, but keeping it just above it). Great! In my opinion the Paint toolbar should have its own undo-buffer with at least 5 undo-steps back.

[Sam_Zen]

Just better indeed.

Sometimes when removing stains or dots from a background, I worked a bit fast, jumping from one source-position to the other, to pick the (not steady) background as close as possible to the target each time.
Often I got lost then, getting the material from a spot somewhere else. Due the single undo, things got messed up

[Mij]

So what is meant by important? Not essential, it can be used as it is, just better I would say. It is, after all, what most other programs do.

Personally I prefer the alternative method that was sometimes used before Photoshop was king, where the two cursors were shown all the time. As I recall you positioned the source point first, with both cursors moving together, then held down the right mouse key while you positioned the target point relative to it. The advantage was that you could make small adjustments of the relative position without setting a new source point every time.

[MItaly]

Just a little thing about the clone tool MItaly. After right clicking to define the source position the X cursor does not appear until you left click and start drawing. Is there a reason for that? It is nicer when you do see that cursor immediately both to give confidence that you have actually placed the source point and to ensure that you have the precise relative alignment you want before you start to draw.

If I remember well how I implemented the clone tool, it is because it's in its second state, so the source point has been defined, but obviously not the interval between the source and the target point. If you think that this is important I can show the X cursor over the source point also in this state.

[Sam_Zen]

Good point, Mij.

[Mij]

Another clone question

Just a little thing about the clone tool MItaly. After right clicking to define the source position the X cursor does not appear until you left click and start drawing. Is there a reason for that? It is nicer when you do see that cursor immediately both to give confidence that you have actually placed the source point and to ensure that you have the precise relative alignment you want before you start to draw.