Ratio Resample Image Menu (IrfanView v4.20)

[johnberb]

Hello All,

This is my first post on this Forum so I hope I am not breaking any rules here?

I am running WindowsXP (Home) w/SP-3 My video card is the ATI Radeon 9800 Pro and I use a digital connection to my Samusng 22" Syncmaster 2243BWX 22" Flat Screen Monitor. My default resolution on both the video card and monitor are 1680X1050 which is the maximum my monitor is capable of using. My IrfanView build is 4.20.

I have a few questions on some way to perhaps to save time on re-entering the same information from within the "Ratio Resample Image" menu. Each time I have to manually choose to choose a resolution that will fill my screen ie 1680X1050 I have to manually use the pull down menu on the right side of the menu and choose this resolution. Then next I have to "radio button" the command to use "Desktop Size (no aspect ratio) By doing this my picture will now display the entire size of my monitor.

By choosing "Desktop Size (no aspect ratio) command am I somehow loosing any clarity somehow increasing distortion into my picture as it stretches to fit the entire size of the monitor at 1680X1050? If I am I cannot really tell any difference with the exception my image is now much larger.

One other odd thing I have run into is that after making the changes in the above paragraph the image still does not fit completely across the width of the monitor and leaves a black edge about 1" wide equally on both the left and right side of the screen? However when I click on the enter key on my keyboard the image now fills the entire screen completely with no black borders and the next time I display the image I have resized it is definitely filling my entire screen.

I am wondering is there anyway perhaps from within the i_view32.ini that I can make the above two changes of resolution size and (no aspect ratio) as default?
I also have no idea as to which of the six, (6) Filters I should choose to use to get the sharpest and clearest picture that is possible? At this point I am using IrfanView's default of "Lanczos filter (slowest)"

On the left side of the "Ratio Resample Images" menu I have both "Preserve aspect ratio and "Apply sharpen after Resamle" boxes checked.

I am also using the default DPI of "72" in the box in the left side of the menu. Should I set this to a higher DPI Value? If so what would you recommend for the size of monitor I am using here?
I bring down most of my pictures from sites I am registered with like Websots and "WinCustomize"

I use a Canon PowerShot G10 Digital Camera with the resolution set to 1600X1200 resolution for all the pictures. This camea will shoot up to 3000X4000 resolution but does not have a specific setting for 1680 X 1050 reslolution.

Any help on any of these questions would be sincerely appreciated.

John

[Skippybox]

This is all unnecessary. You don't need to manually resize all your images to view them. Instead choose View>Display Options (window mode) and pick your options. The reason you are experiencing 1" bars is because it is not fitting the entire screen. It is fitting in a window that is much smaller because of toolbars. The black bars are due to the maintaining of your image's aspect ratio when fitted to the available space that is left. Pressing enter puts you in fullscreen, which is using the entire 1680x1050. Go to View>Fullscreen Options to configure it.

I will though answer your questions about resizing.

I have a few questions on some way to perhaps to save time on re-entering the same information from within the "Ratio Resample Image" menu. Each time I have to manually choose to choose a resolution that will fill my screen ie 1680X1050 I have to manually use the pull down menu on the right side of the menu and choose this resolution. Then next I have to "radio button" the command to use "Desktop Size (no aspect ratio) By doing this my picture will now display the entire size of my monitor.

I am wondering is there anyway perhaps from within the i_view32.ini that I can make the above two changes of resolution size and (no aspect ratio) as default?

I don't believe that these settings are preserved in the ini. If you want to make resizing easier, you could use batch conversion with advanced options, or resize via the command line.

By choosing "Desktop Size (no aspect ratio) command am I somehow loosing any clarity somehow increasing distortion into my picture as it stretches to fit the entire size of the monitor at 1680X1050? If I am I cannot really tell any difference with the exception my image is now much larger.

Yes, this is very bad. Your images are 1600x1200, which means they have an aspect ratio of 4:3, but you are trying to resize them to fit your monitor's resolution of 1680x1050, with an aspect ratio of 8:5. Those are not equivalent, so you are introducing a distortion. You are stretching the width by 1.05, but shrinking the height by .875; combined this alters 4:3 by 1.2 to give you 8:5. You should be careful which setting to use.

When you have Preserve aspect ratio enabled and you select 1680x1050 (ratio option used), you maintain the images 4:3 ratio, as shown in New size: 1680x1260. Desktop size (no aspect ratio) is a separate option, so picking 1680x1050 is unnecessary, since it will be erased. This option ignores the aspect ratio of the image (even if enabled), and uses the desktop's size, 1680x1050. Yes, it matches your desktop, but now it's distorted. Best fit to desktop really pertains to IrfanView's window. It maintains the image's aspect ratio, but fits to the available space of the IrfanView window minus all the toolbars, depending on which are in use (therefore, it is variable).

Obviously, none of these may be what you want. If you are trying to maintain the image aspect ratio, but fill the screen completely, then you should use 1400x1050 in the set new size. If you have Preserve aspect ratio selected, you may only have to type 1050 for height. Percentage won't work because the percent is 87.5, but only integers are allowed.

One other odd thing I have run into is that after making the changes in the above paragraph the image still does not fit completely across the width of the monitor and leaves a black edge about 1" wide equally on both the left and right side of the screen? However when I click on the enter key on my keyboard the image now fills the entire screen completely with no black borders and the next time I display the image I have resized it is definitely filling my entire screen.

It won't because your image is as large as the screen, but the space for it is far smaller. In order to display it without distortion, IrfanView must resize it (as shown in the title/caption bar and the zoom % in status bar). With less height, the full width will be reduced, causing the black background to be revealed for the difference on both sides split in equal amounts.

Fullscreen eliminates the window and taskbar, so the image can display at 1680x1050, the full screen's resolution.

I also have no idea as to which of the six, (6) Filters I should choose to use to get the sharpest and clearest picture that is possible? At this point I am using IrfanView's default of "Lanczos filter (slowest)"

Lanczos is usually the best option for resampling, which gives you smoother, clearer images. This eliminates pixelization. Resizing is useful for retaining the original pixels and would be jagged. It is useful for enlarging/reducing images, where the original pixels are important. For photographs, usually resample is better.

On the left side of the "Ratio Resample Images" menu I have both "Preserve aspect ratio and "Apply sharpen after Resamle" boxes checked.

Sharpening is not necessary unless you need it in certain situations. It is better to begin with sharper images than to apply fake sharpening.

I am also using the default DPI of "72" in the box in the left side of the menu. Should I set this to a higher DPI Value? If so what would you recommend for the size of monitor I am using here?
I bring down most of my pictures from sites I am registered with like Websots and "WinCustomize"

DPI has to do with printing size, not viewing. Although, DPI (dots/inch) is used to refer to screens sometimes, not here. Your screen is about 22" diagonally, so it is about 18.7"x11.7", thus for 1680x1050, you have a DPI (pixels/inch PPI) of about 90.

I use a Canon PowerShot G10 Digital Camera with the resolution set to 1600X1200 resolution for all the pictures. This camea will shoot up to 3000X4000 resolution but does not have a specific setting for 1680 X 1050 reslolution.

While 1600x1200 is usually satisfactory, I would recommend using the full potential of your camera, 3000x4000 (12MP). You are wasting quite a bit of quality, which may come in handy. Since viewing will adjust your images to fit anyway, you don't need to match screen resolution to image resolution; the program will do it for you. The bigger images will be resampled and will look better. You can always crop areas of bigger images at better quality that way, too. Your images will have larger file sizes, though. You can also view you images at 100% and see the individual pixels, but obviously it is difficult to visualize how they might print at high DPI, since screen DPI is quite low.

[johnberb]

Hello Skippybox,

First of all my sincere thanks for all the time you have taken to address each of my questions this I posted. I have printed out this entire post and your reply and now I am trying to digest all the information you sent over.

I'm 69 here and last October 3rd. went through an attack of SCA "Sudden Cardiac Arrest" (sudden death) and was clinically dead for 19 minutes so it is a miracle that I am here. This has left me with short term memory but that is getting better as time passes.

I am going to study the printed notes closely and some of the material is a bit over my head at this point so please bear with me? I did retire from the Computer Business due to my ongoing heart disease at the end of 1998.

One question I am going to ask and maybe you have already addressed this is. Now when I left click on a .jpg file say 1600X1200 and it opens it is of course not full screen until I then press the return key and then IrfanView opens the image up full screen and to my untrained eyes looks darn good.

Is there any way that I can simply click on the .jpg file and have it automatically fill my entire screen without having to press the return key?

Again many thanks so very much for all you time spent on my questions and I will certainly be back to you in hopefully the near future on this subject.

John

[Mij]

Is there any way that I can simply click on the .jpg file and have it automatically fill my entire screen without having to press the return key?

Yes. From the Menu select Options then Properties/Settings. Open the Misc. 1 tab and check "Start in full screen ..".

[Skippybox]

Greetings johnberb,

I admire your appreciation. I am obliged to help you.

I'm 69 here and last October 3rd. went through an attack of SCA "Sudden Cardiac Arrest" (sudden death) and was clinically dead for 19 minutes so it is a miracle that I am here. This has left me with short term memory but that is getting better as time passes.

Sorry to hear of your unfortunate circumstances. I too recently had a life-threatening medical condition, although not quite as dire as yours. It appears we both have something to be joyful about this Thanksgiving.

I am going to study the printed notes closely and some of the material is a bit over my head at this point so please bear with me? I did retire from the Computer Business due to my ongoing heart disease at the end of 1998.

No problem, I am just a common user like yourself. I am patient, but you seem quite capable and perceptive. The controls in IrfanView can be overwhelming, though.

One question I am going to ask and maybe you have already addressed this is. Now when I left click on a .jpg file say 1600X1200 and it opens it is of course not full screen until I then press the return key and then IrfanView opens the image up full screen and to my untrained eyes looks darn good.

Is there any way that I can simply click on the .jpg file and have it automatically fill my entire screen without having to press the return key?

No, I didn't. Yes, you can easily change it like Mij says, so it doesn't open in window view first. Go to Options>Properties/Settings>Misc. 1 tab and check Start in full screen mode (if image loaded; single ESC for program exit). If you want to go back to window mode you can still use Enter.

You could also do it via the command line with the /fs switch, and even make a batch file to do it. A bit more advanced though.

Yes, the image should look good in fullscreen, since it is using all the available space of the screen, while (depending on your setting) keeping the image's aspect ratio to prevent distortion. It will be 1400x1050 for your 1600x1200 image at 88% zoom. So, there will be black bars still on each side of 140px ([1680-1400]/2), or about 1.6". The image will be about 15.5"x11.7".

The Properties>Full screen tab has six display choices for you to choose as your default. However, you can press the 1-6 number keys at the top of your keyboard, to choose a different mode temporarily. The F key will also cycle through the modes. The modes are self-explanatory, but I'll give you an idea about them, along with the display size of your 1600x1200 image.

• Show images/movies with the original size-1:1 or 100% (image will be larger than screen, thus requiring panning/scrolling)
  [1600x1200] 100%
• Fit to screen: "large images only (recommended)-default setting that maintains small images' original size
  [1400x1050] 88%
• Fit to screen: all images/movies-small images are enlarged to screen size so all images are about the same size
  [1400x1050] 88%
• Stretch all images/movies to screen-all images are the same size, the size of the screen, thus may be distorted
  [1680x1050] 88%
• Fit image width to screen width-width enlarged/reduced as necessary; image height can be larger than screen height, thus requiring panning/scrolling
  [1680x1260] 105%
• Fit image height to screen height-height enlarged/reduced as necessary; image width can be larger than screen width, thus requiring panning/scrolling
  [1400x1050] 88%

You can choose resample for fitting, which will improve display quality, with a slight penalty in load time. Zooming will not be resampled in fullscreen, but is in window mode, if selected (controlled elsewhere).

Remember, window mode display and fullscreen mode display, are independently configured. You should definitely have a look at the Help manual, to learn all that IrfanView has to offer.

So are you actually doing any resizing operations, or are you just trying to view pictures, and thought resize was the way to go?

Happy Thanksgiving!

Skippybox

[johnberb]

Resizing

Thanks so much to both of you for getting back so quickly. The funny thing is that I did run into this option to open full screen but thouth it pretained to the IrfanVeiw program

I have now selected this option and now when I click on a .jpg file in snaps right to full screen.

Well Skippybox before you jumped in quicly with your excellent advise I was determained that to view my images at full screen in a clear and undistorted view I had to manually change each one using the Resize/Resample menu.

Thanks to you straightening me out I am now saving tons of time. I don't download anything less than 1280X1024. As the years have went by my benchmarks for resolution have of course increased. Just bought this new Samsung 22" and the Canon G10 (14.2 MP) which really will give me the ability to grow in the resolution area at least for awhile.

If I do want a picture printed I attach it to an email and send it to our photo imaging shop here in Sheridan.

My picture collection now has grown over the years to over 32,000 pictures and I have a dedicated hard disk just to store them on. I then break down these pictures into by their subject and create a folder for each subject like, Cars, Nature, etc.

Honestly being as how I don't print these pictures and just use them with WallpaperCycler utility by my Cyber Buddy, Marc Gregorie in Brussels, Belgium http://www.nuonsoft.com/wallpapercycler/buy.php Mark is an absolut genius when it comes to graphic files and his support is great -- I have worked with him for years and would highly recommend his work.

Anyway, Skippybox seeing as how I am not printing but just viewing 99% of all these pictures if I stick to nothing less than 1280X1024 or 1600X1200 the feature to view full screen should perhaps be adequate?

If I am wrong here please give my your thouthts as I will appreciate this.


Warmest Regards,

John

[Skippybox]

Hi johnberb,

The funny thing is that I did run into this option to open full screen but thouth it pretained to the IrfanVeiw program

What do you mean? It does pertain to IrfanView; fullscreen is a mode of IrfanView. There is a whole tab of options just for it, it's utilized for slideshow, many of IrfanView commands are available in it, and you can even work with the IrfanView thumbnail window from it. If you're interested, you can also make window mode have the look and feel of fullscreen by hiding all the toolbars, while enjoying all the benefits of window mode.

Well Skippybox before you jumped in quicly with your excellent advise I was determained that to view my images at full screen in a clear and undistorted view I had to manually change each one using the Resize/Resample menu.

When you look back at it now, doesn't it seem ridiculous or impossible to resize 32,000 pictures just to view them. Software is supposed to make things easier, not harder! I don't know what other image viewers you've used, but did any of them have this requirement?

Thanks to you straightening me out I am now saving tons of time. I don't download anything less than 1280X1024. As the years have went by my benchmarks for resolution have of course increased. Just bought this new Samsung 22" and the Canon G10 (14.2 MP) which really will give me the ability to grow in the resolution area at least for awhile.

I bet you are, viewing should be care free. All monitors can view images of any size, it's just a matter of how large and at what quality. Obviously, the more resolution you have, the more complete and better an image will render on screen.

Size is different though. The bigger the monitor, the bigger the pixels will be at a given resolution, hurting quality. However, the image will look impressively big. Unless a big screen has a higher resolution to make up for its size, many times smaller screens will have higher DPIs. My screen is only 15", but it's DPI is over 85. Some 19" screens have over a 100 DPI.

Don't forget, screens don't come much bigger than 1920x1200 (2.3MP), and yet we have 14.2MP cameras like your G10. So, matching resolution is pointless. You should enjoy the bigger images. You paid for it didn't you?

Anyway, Skippybox seeing as how I am not printing but just viewing 99% of all these pictures if I stick to nothing less than 1280X1024 or 1600X1200 the feature to view full screen should perhaps be adequate?

If you are truly just viewing, then fullscreen is great. But, if you do any type of work with your images or need to see the menu commands, then window mode is still useful to you.

You might be satisfied with those resolutions, especially with higher quality cameras that make great low-res images. For example, SLR's have low MP sensors, but take fantastic shots. But remember, you could take a 4000x3000 image, crop an area one-fourth or 25% the size (2000x1500) from it, and still have more quality than your current 1600x1200 images. Going down to 16% would maintain it! Wouldn't that be useful?

Here is an example. I have a 3840x2400 image and a similar 1280x800 image. If viewed fitted they would look about the same quality. However, if we zoom the 1280x800 one to 3840x2400, you see quite a difference.

Make sure you view these at 100% to really see what I'm talking about.

Here is a side-by-side of the 3840x2400 at 1:1 and the 1280x800 using resampling on the right.


Click thumbnail

Here is a side-by-side of the 3840x2400 at 1:1 and the 1280x800 without resampling on the right.


Click thumbnail

Now isn't the 3840x2400 pretty impressive? Wouldn't you much rather view that, and crop from it than the other?

Going back to how stretching an image to your screen causes distortion, here is an example. The image on the top is the correct aspect ratio of 5:4, but the image on the bottom has been adjusted to fit your screen's ratio of 8:5. See how flattened it looks? While it may look acceptable to the untrained eye, you can imagine what other photos might end up looking like.



Take care,
Skippybox

[johnberb]

Resoluton Size

Hi Skippybox all that I can say is WOW!! on the examples you sent over. It sayes that indeed my equiipment is video card and monitor are capable of displaying the real high end stuff.

O.K. let's say I set the camera up to take 4000X3000 images now where do I go from here into IrfanView?

You keep mentioning "Windows Mode" to me in you posts so please again forgive me for not knowing what this means.

I do understand the word "Crop: but have no idea how to bo about his "Cropping" large images and wondering it this would requiee allot of work and time?

Gosh you really have been a buddy to me on all this and I sure hope I am not wearing out my welcome?

God bless,

John

[Skippybox]

Hi Skippybox all that I can say is WOW!! on the examples you sent over. It sayes that indeed my equiipment is video card and monitor are capable of displaying the real high end stuff.

WOW!! is right. Actually you don't need great equipment to view images like this. I'm running a 7 year old machine without a problem. But, better equipment usually offers improved performance.

Here is the complete 3840x2400 if you want to see how it views on your screen at 100%, fitted, or zoomed:

O.K. let's say I set the camera up to take 4000X3000 images now where do I go from here into IrfanView?

What exactly do you mean?

You should make sure you are saving your images on your camera at the highest quality (least compression) to ensure the best JPGs possible. Once they are compressed you can't get that quality back. JPG is a lossy format, whereas other formats are lossless. They can compress the file size without losing quality. Some formats use no compression at all, but have very large file sizes. Repeatedly saving as JPG will result in poorer and poorer image quality, so it is best left for the final output. There also isn't much point in resaving at a higher JPG compression rate, as it will only make your file bigger with no increase in quality. IrfanView has tools that allow you to manipulate images without losing quality, they are called lossless transformations. With those you can do say a crop, without resaving as JPG, allowing you to preserve the current compression in the overwritten file. There are some limitations obviously in order to make it possible.

Also, resolution and compression aren't they only factors. The camera plays a role in quality, too. The bigger the sensor size, better lenses, better controls all improve the image regardless of resolution. It's why you'll find 8MP cameras for $100 and some for $1000.

You keep mentioning "Windows Mode" to me in you posts so please again forgive me for not knowing what this means.

Window mode is the opposite of full screen mode. Every program opens in a movable sizable window in Windows. That is kind of the point of the name of the operating system. Window mode is the mode you used to start in with all those toolbars. This mode is highly configurable, and allows you to do editing and make adjustments to settings. Since it is a window, you can arrange your programs on your screen so they are all visible. You can layer, tile, cascade, minimize, or keep one on top of all the others. You can also select windows from the taskbar or ALT+Tab between them as you work. The great benefit is that you can work with multiple programs at once allowing you to copy and paste between them or something. In fact, you can have several IrfanView windows open at once, allowing you to view several images at once.

Here are nine tiled IrfanView windows open with various toolbars and images in them. Remember to view at 100%:



Click thumbnail

Pretty cool? You should try this with video, it's crazy!

You can also move between fullscreen and another program.

I do understand the word "Crop: but have no idea how to bo about his "Cropping" large images and wondering it this would requiee allot of work and time?

Cropping can be very easy. All you have to do is be in window mode. Click and drag on the image to make a selection box and press CTRL+Y or Edit>Crop selection. See easy. Now you just need to save your image as a new file using Save As.

You can resize the selection by dragging on the edges and move it using the right mouse button. You can also resize preserving the aspect ratio of the box by using CTRL+drag. Look in the title/caption bar and you will see your selection's starting coordinates, size, and aspect ratio. You can select the whole image with CTRL+A or there is Edit>Maximize and center selection for making small selections centered, fully sized to the image with respect to the box's aspect ratio.

If you want more control, you can use Edit>Create custom crop selection (SHIFT+C) and type in the exact size and position of the box. You can also use that to adjust your initial mouse selection. If accuracy is necessary, it helps to work in original size to make sure the selection is accurate to the pixel.

Another way is to do it automatically, but you lose control. You can crop automatically using your own settings in batch conversion. This is very quick, since you don't have to touch any photos. Another way is to use the Image>Add canvas command. With this you can crop by using negative values. Otherwise positive values will add to this picture a border.

Most important: You need to backup your images before you start working with them. It is very easy to make mistakes and overwrite an original. Always edit copies so you can recover. Backing up is important in case your computer encounters a problem as well. You don't want to lose 32,000 images if your drive fails!

Gosh you really have been a buddy to me on all this and I sure hope I am not wearing out my welcome?

Not at all, ask away. What would be the point of the forum if there were nobody to ask questions? Remember, you can search the forum about any topic and read what has already been answered. You should also read the IrfanView Help file (press F1), there are a lot of features to try...