IrfanPaint - Early Betas

[Sam_Zen]

I found it and read it with Babel Fish: good work!

Thanks. I wonder what Babel Fish made of "stampij".

So about multi-lingual.
I think it has low priority, tools and navigation go first. Language support would be a nice item to add, after the first beta-round is finished, before coming with version 1.
Nevertheless, if the time is there, I volunteer for being a Dutch translator.
But the whole package will need being consistent in this area as well. At the moment, If I choose Italian as IV-language, the tooltips of IP are still in English, of course.
If the language versions are added in Paint.dll, then it will be necessary to add some language choice. Or maybe it's possible to derive the current language from the main IV-settings.

[Bhikkhu Pesala]

Try to add more spaces: one space is just one pixel wide, so if you are using a pen larger than 2 px you won't notice the spaces.

I think this would work better if 1 dot or 1 space = 1 pen width.

[MItaly]

Thanks. I wonder what Babel Fish made of "stampij".
Or maybe it's possible to derive the current language from the main IV-settings.

I think that a good idea would be to include the IP tooltips in the normal language files, since IP will be distributed not as a separate plugin, but in the "small" IV packet (that one without plugins).

I think this would work better if 1 dot or 1 space = 1 pen width.

1 dot = 1 pen width makes no sense, since a dot is 1 round/square/flat endcap 1 pen width wide; 1 space = 1 pen width is quite complicated to obtain, I would need to update the style array at every pen width change, and you could no longer obtain some effects (try the pattern . . with the flat endcap). It's simpler to add some tooltips to that dialog .

[Sam_Zen]

a good idea would be to include the IP tooltips in the normal language files, since IP will be distributed not as a separate plugin, but in the "small" IV packet (that one without plugins).

Upgrading the language files would be the most logical thing to do, if IP will be integrated.
And in the end the help-files should be edited too.
A "small" IV packet ? Did I miss something here ?

[MItaly]

I talked with Irfan and he said that it's better to include all the languages in Paint.dll, since I have not so many strings (~40) and working with IV's language dlls would likely become a mess (just to make an example, there will be likely many control IDs conflict, and I would have to change all my IDs in a different range). BTW, IrfanPaint is not being integrated with IV, it will simply deployed with it.

A "small" IV packet ? Did I miss something here ?

I called the "small" IV packet the standard packet without plugins (this one).

[Sam_Zen]

IrfanPaint is not being integrated with IV, it will simply deployed with it

Ah I see, this clarifies a lot. And yes, I understand Irfan's idea. Upgrading all IV's language dlls is quite huge and tricky,
while as you say, only a small amount of strings is at stake.

[ChuckE]

I used to be involved with the testing of some multinational software for a major corporation. The buttons, commands, messages, etc. were all kept in an .INI file, in their own section.

Doesn't it make sense to do a similar thing with IrfanView? To actually have the various translations all being referred to by number, within each language section.

That is, string#1 for (example) "File" would be "File" in the [English section], and "Akte" in the [German section] and "Archivo" in the [Spanish section], etc. (if those are, in fact, correct).

That way, if anybody else wants to translate to another language, it is a relatively simple lookup and insert into the section to correct, or even add, a new language.
If there were 40 such numbered strings, and if new strings are needed, you just add string#41, #42, etc. for each of the languages. You could even make a simple default "MsgMissing" string which could be referred to for anytime a string was lacking a referred number.

I am not a programmer (I have done some, but never with very involved things), but sometimes easy solutions are overlooked by people too close to the problem.

[Bhikkhu Pesala]

I used to be involved with the testing of some multinational software for a major corporation. The buttons, commands, messages, etc. were all kept in an .INI file, in their own section.

That's the way it is done in Opera Browser. It makes it easy for the user to modify the interface just by editing the text file. English.lng is a huge file with hundreds of strings. It also contains comments. Here's just a small section of it:

-1288121764="Find results"
1556424467="Personal bar"
-1352710556="Blank page"
-1759909084="New folder"
906850014="Add"
1325210100="Add"
606160820="Menu"
377181184="Find"
1647828869="New tab"
-918088919="New"
-4062831="Open"
-1001150226="Save"
880020204="Print"
-1093357638="Copy"
197832810="Find"
-847360260="Back"
-1705826954="Reload"
830055518="Forward"
380699176="Home"
-2061425340="Goto"
1380682310="Active"
-1706951539="Tile"
-1635182269="Cascade"
-101179097="Hotlist"
278263762="Full"
870715797="Go"
-913592259="Search"
790656628="Resume"
-607245441="Retransfer"
-1478706519="Stop"
879407488="Close all windows?"
; Used in the progress bar when a request for fetching a document has been
; enqueued for sending to the server.
837164424="Request queued for sending to %s..."

I'm not sure why they need such huge numbers.

[Leif]

That is also the way it is in among many others Total Commander. It used to be in a .DLL just like in IrfanView but Mr. Ghisler changed that many years ago. I suppose both methods have their drawbacks and advantages. But .INI files are way easier to deal with IMHO.

[MItaly]

INI files are simple to use for the translator, but are a mess for the programmer: to support internationalization with INI files I'd have to rewrite a lot of code.

[stefan]

INI files are simple to use for the translator, but are a mess for the programmer: to support internationalization with INI files I'd have to rewrite a lot of code.

Ok,

-break-

let´s talk about functionality again

steve

Edit: BTW IrfanPaint goes into my productive IrfanView version (not an extra installation).

[stefan]

Hi,

another request: You can undo only one element (line, arrow etc.). Could there be more steps to be undone ?

steve

[ChuckE]

It was the intent to remove that rewriting, or changing, or even creating the DLL files to begin with, that I brought up the idea of using an INI to store the translations.

Granted, you may need to change your DLL if you have embedded calls in your plug-in that refer to your language DLL, you are the one who knows your DLL, and plug-in, best.

But if Irfan came up with no embedded language in any of his tools, or complement files, and if anything needed a word or phrase, he just referred to by a string number. And since then all those are in an INI (or any other kind of text string holding place) no one has any code rewriting, would ever have to be done. Any new languages ...? just add them to the INI file. As new messages are needed, just add them to the INI file. If there are incorrect translations, just edit the INI file.

Your plug-in would only have to refer to the string#, as long as you know what the message was inferring, the message would always be right, for whichever language you were using. So, your rewrite would be to reduce your coding time.

Hey, it's just a thought. It would never to be done, unless Irfan decides that as a way to change it.

[Sam_Zen]

I'm in strong favour of ini-files, but I think steve is right, let's stick to the priorities first.
Different language packs are a luxury, not so much a necessity.

IrfanPaint goes into my productive IrfanView version (not an extra installation)

You were quite right doing so. I made a second installation with IP on a different partition as a beta-thing.
But after a short while I decided : This will be my IrfanView. Then removing the second one appeared to have some drawbacks.
Couldn't remove it via the windows config 'software' because there was only one IV in the list.
So I had to think of a strategy to get things right. It's ok now, but only after having to recover the lost file associations.

[Bhikkhu Pesala]

Different language packs are a luxury, not so much a necessity.

That would depend on whether or not you can read English. If multi-lingual support is going to be added to Irfan Paint, then it makes sense for MItaly to consult with Irfan about how best to do this. Not being a programmer, I don't know how hard it is to do, but it seems to me that using INI files would make multi-lingual support much easier to maintain and more expandable.